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Sep 17, 2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon

And it is very satisfying to fly a plane you've built yourself !
I bet it must be
Out of curiosity, what type of foam did you use for your model?
I have been reading a bit about different types of foam here on the forum, and I see there are quite a few different types
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Sep 17, 2019, 05:26 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McAl
I bet it must be
Out of curiosity, what type of foam did you use for your model?
I have been reading a bit about different types of foam here on the forum, and I see there are quite a few different types
I use cheap foam from a dollar store , $1 for a 20" x 30" sheet . It comes with paper skins that I peel off , the foam core is extruded polystyrene . The trick to building a beginner plane that flies well and is "crash proof" is to build it very lightweight . A plane that is lightweight ( relative to wing area ) will fly slowly ; and if it crashes , it's like dropping a feather on the ground ..... unlikely to be damaged .

Are you in the UK ? I believe depron is commonly used for scratch building planes . There are quite a few regular posters from the UK in the "scratch built foamies" forum , you can ask them what foam & source they use : https://www.rcgroups.com/foamies-scratchbuilt-428/

If you would like to scratch build a cheap foam plane , I'll be glad to help .
Sep 18, 2019, 07:23 PM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon
I use cheap foam from a dollar store , $1 for a 20" x 30" sheet . It comes with paper skins that I peel off , the foam core is extruded polystyrene . The trick to building a beginner plane that flies well and is "crash proof" is to build it very lightweight . A plane that is lightweight ( relative to wing area ) will fly slowly ; and if it crashes , it's like dropping a feather on the ground ..... unlikely to be damaged .

Are you in the UK ? I believe depron is commonly used for scratch building planes . There are quite a few regular posters from the UK in the "scratch built foamies" forum , you can ask them what foam & source they use : https://www.rcgroups.com/foamies-scratchbuilt-428/

If you would like to scratch build a cheap foam plane , I'll be glad to help .
Thanks so much for the offer, so kind of you

I did have some trouble finding foam in UK online stores, when googling for EPO, Elapor, EPS, Arcel and other denominations often mentioned in forums. But I did as you suggested, and looked for specific mentions form UK users here and on other forums.
It seems that most RC shops here do not stock foam, perhaps because it can be had cheaply from less specialized places, knowing what to look for.
But I found a few and also this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XPS-Under...-/191603058452

Do you think it would be suitable?
As for the glue somebody here suggested using UHU, or perhaps epoxy. I think I will get some, along with a roll of crossweave reinforced tape, which might come up useful if I decide to try and fashion a crash-proof wing.
But I really need to put all the costs on a spreadsheet before starting buying stuff, and figure out what I really need so to keep expenses down.
Also considered that I would need to select a motor, servos and of course a remote and a receiver. I see most of the components can be ordered from China, but little expenses do add up.

Speaking of which, I have been looking into the HobbyZone AeroScout you mentioned. It is a tempting option because, if I really want to try my hand at building my own plane, I will anyway need a radio and a receiver, which would cost me quite a bit.
The reviews I read about the Spektrum DXe seem a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to programming, and allegedly the range is a bit limited compared to other transmitters. But probably it is more than enough for what I will need anyway, and a good transmitter would cost more than the Aeroscout.
The only thing which I dislike about the package is the price of the batteries. An additional battery pack is 20% of the cost of the RTF deal, which seems a bit steep.

But anyway, I think I will start by trying to copy the wing of my current plane, which got badly damaged during last flight. That will cost me only some foam and glue, and perhaps it a good way to see if I am handy enough with the foam.

Thanks again!
Sep 18, 2019, 07:28 PM
pull up -- PULL UP!!!
Check this post from one of your countrymen:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=862

In fact you may want to look at the whole thread for another candidate plane to build.
Sep 18, 2019, 07:35 PM
Registered User
I get my 5mm foamboard from Hobby Craft.
Sep 18, 2019, 09:15 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by McAl
Thanks so much for the offer, so kind of you

I did have some trouble finding foam in UK online stores, when googling for EPO, Elapor, EPS, Arcel and other denominations often mentioned in forums. But I did as you suggested, and looked for specific mentions form UK users here and on other forums.
It seems that most RC shops here do not stock foam, perhaps because it can be had cheaply from less specialized places, knowing what to look for.
But I found a few and also this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XPS-Under...-/191603058452

Do you think it would be suitable?
As for the glue somebody here suggested using UHU, or perhaps epoxy. I think I will get some, along with a roll of crossweave reinforced tape, which might come up useful if I decide to try and fashion a crash-proof wing.
But I really need to put all the costs on a spreadsheet before starting buying stuff, and figure out what I really need so to keep expenses down.
Also considered that I would need to select a motor, servos and of course a remote and a receiver. I see most of the components can be ordered from China, but little expenses do add up.

Speaking of which, I have been looking into the HobbyZone AeroScout you mentioned. It is a tempting option because, if I really want to try my hand at building my own plane, I will anyway need a radio and a receiver, which would cost me quite a bit.
The reviews I read about the Spektrum DXe seem a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to programming, and allegedly the range is a bit limited compared to other transmitters. But probably it is more than enough for what I will need anyway, and a good transmitter would cost more than the Aeroscout.
The only thing which I dislike about the package is the price of the batteries. An additional battery pack is 20% of the cost of the RTF deal, which seems a bit steep.

But anyway, I think I will start by trying to copy the wing of my current plane, which got badly damaged during last flight. That will cost me only some foam and glue, and perhaps it a good way to see if I am handy enough with the foam.

Thanks again!
Any foam will work for scratch building planes , you just have to be aware of the characteristics of the foam and build accordingly . For example , a soft flexible foam like EPP needs reinforcement from carbon fiber or fiberglass rods ..... or cheap bamboo skewers .

There was a young lady ( AmyW ) on RC Groups who lives in the UK , she got foam board at this place : https://www.foam-board.co.uk/a1-5mm-...ard-10-sheets/
Also , HobbyKing has foam board ..... it's available from the HobbyKing UK warehouse : https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aero-mod...0mm-white.html the HobbyKing foam board is stiff and brittle , but easily repairable with hot glue . It is also available in 3mm thick sheets , which can be laminated together to make 6mm or 9mm thick sheets .

I use low temp hot glue for all my airframe construction , and fiber tape for control surface hinges . Here is an excellent thread about using cheap/free materials for airframe construction : https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ap-and-or-free

For your first scratch built plane , I recommend starting with something simple to build and easy to fly . Just as in life : we first learn to crawl , then we learn to walk , then we learn to run . If you decide to go ahead and scratch build , let me know and I'll make some recommendations for planes to build .
Sep 19, 2019, 10:50 AM
Registered User
McAl
The 'under lay' foam you highlighted can certainly be used but compared to say Depron it is softer and a bit more flexible but it can be used un reinforced.
This wing is.
Name: UndlyWing1.jpg
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Description:
Note it has a small strip of balsa on the leading and trailing edges not for strength but to give a bit of "ding" resistance
The full 40" span wing being tested supported by its wing tips with a 18 oz centre load.
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Description:
Painted and fitted on my 'hack' Wing Dragon fuselage.
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Description:
A rather poor video of it flying (and doing a loop)
Maiden flight of the "Underlay" wing. (1 min 34 sec)
Sep 19, 2019, 07:41 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by hard line
Check this post from one of your countrymen:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=862

In fact you may want to look at the whole thread for another candidate plane to build.

Thanks, I live not far from a B&Q branch, so I might get some tomorrow and start playing around with it.
Sep 19, 2019, 07:48 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDazNinja
I get my 5mm foamboard from Hobby Craft.
Thanks, I see that they do free delivery over 20, so perhaps if they stock other things I might need it could be an option.
Is this the one you normally get?
https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/decor-a...ing/foam-board
Sep 19, 2019, 08:12 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon
Any foam will work for scratch building planes , you just have to be aware of the characteristics of the foam and build accordingly . For example , a soft flexible foam like EPP needs reinforcement from carbon fiber or fiberglass rods ..... or cheap bamboo skewers .

There was a young lady ( AmyW ) on RC Groups who lives in the UK , she got foam board at this place : https://www.foam-board.co.uk/a1-5mm-...ard-10-sheets/
Also , HobbyKing has foam board ..... it's available from the HobbyKing UK warehouse : https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aero-mod...0mm-white.html the HobbyKing foam board is stiff and brittle , but easily repairable with hot glue . It is also available in 3mm thick sheets , which can be laminated together to make 6mm or 9mm thick sheets .

I use low temp hot glue for all my airframe construction , and fiber tape for control surface hinges . Here is an excellent thread about using cheap/free materials for airframe construction : https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ap-and-or-free

For your first scratch built plane , I recommend starting with something simple to build and easy to fly . Just as in life : we first learn to crawl , then we learn to walk , then we learn to run . If you decide to go ahead and scratch build , let me know and I'll make some recommendations for planes to build .
Thanks, that thread is a veritable trove of great ideas!
I was looking at carbon rods (I think we have have some from an old kite , if my kid allows me to dismantle it) but actually using bamboo skewers make lots of sense. I have been scouting the house for materials, inspired by the "cheap or free" thread

I am glad you think hot glue is suitable for planes. I use my hot glue gun for all kind of things, but I was a bit worried that that kind of glue might add too much weight.

I will certainly seek your advice as for the shape, and yes, I think simple and easy to fly sounds like a very good start, thanks

For the moment, I will get hold of some foam, and perhaps try and make a replacement or two for my plane main wing, which is not damaged beyond repair. I will copy the shape as closely as I can, and recicle the current aileron placing the servos in the same position on the wing.
I assume that point the CG will need to be the same than with the original wing (28mm) ?

Thanks so much for your PM, by the way, so kind of you.
I tried and reply 3 times, but it does not seem to work.
Perhaps it is because I am a new user and the forum prevents me from sending PMs until I have enough posts?
Sep 19, 2019, 08:26 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks for all the details, your Wing Dragon is very pretty and flies quite beautifully
Could you please elaborate on the "ding" resistance?

Is there perhaps on the forum some thread about the merits of different wing profiles?
I am asking because the main wing I am hoping to replace has rounded tips, and also rounded edges, and I was wondering how crucial is to replicate that profile (sorry if it is a very clueless question).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quorneng
McAl
The 'under lay' foam you highlighted can certainly be used but compared to say Depron it is softer and a bit more flexible but it can be used un reinforced.
This wing is.
Attachment 12571675
Note it has a small strip of balsa on the leading and trailing edges not for strength but to give a bit of "ding" resistance
The full 40" span wing being tested supported by its wing tips with a 18 oz centre load.
Attachment 12571695
Painted and fitted on my 'hack' Wing Dragon fuselage.
Attachment 12571703
A rather poor video of it flying (and doing a loop)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCGXRUkNGGs
Sep 20, 2019, 03:58 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by McAl
Thanks, that thread is a veritable trove of great ideas!
I was looking at carbon rods (I think we have have some from an old kite , if my kid allows me to dismantle it) but actually using bamboo skewers make lots of sense. I have been scouting the house for materials, inspired by the "cheap or free" thread

I am glad you think hot glue is suitable for planes. I use my hot glue gun for all kind of things, but I was a bit worried that that kind of glue might add too much weight.

I will certainly seek your advice as for the shape, and yes, I think simple and easy to fly sounds like a very good start, thanks
Hot glue is fine for building foam airframes , you will learn to use it sparingly .



There are two paths you can take for your first foam scratch build :

1) Use plans . When you use plans : you need to download the plans , then print the plans .... usually in multiple tiles . Then the multiple tiles have to be assembled into one poster-sized sheet of plans . Then the plans have to be transferred/traced to the foam you will be using . Then you cut out the foam pieces and assemble them into an airframe .

2) Build an airframe that doesn't require plans .


The plane ( requiring plans ) I recommend most often for beginner builders/flyers is the EzFly . It is very stable , and can fly slowly if built lightweight . Also , it protects the motor/prop if crashed nose first .

Here is a video of one of my EzFlys flying :



Copy of EzFly with under-cambered wing (1 min 57 sec)






The plane ( that doesn't require plans ) I recommend most often for beginner builders/flyers is the Super Easy . It looks like a big paper airplane , but it is meant to be a disposable , real-world flying practice plane . It is not meant to be a beautiful display plane . The Super Easy also protects the motor/prop in a nose first crash .

Here is a video of a first time RC flyer/builder flying his Super Easy :



RcGroups Scratchbuild "SuperEasy" maiden flight (1 min 28 sec)







Here is a later flight by the same guy and his Super Easy :



RcGroups "SuperEasy" scratch build short flight (1 min 10 sec)
Sep 20, 2019, 05:23 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks so much , I just asked you for suggestions by PM and then found out you already posted it all here

I like both planes actually, the SuperEasy is quite ingenious in its simplicity.
But I do not mind printing the plan out for the EzFly. I have done it already today for one of the FliteTest plans, and while trimming and assembling the plan sheets takes a while, a quite a bit of tape, I found it manageable.

I might try and make the SuperEasy with my child though, I think he will find it fascinating and probably will not mind decorating it

Now I wish I had received my foam already

Out of curiosity, is the angle of the propeller in your Foggy determined by the design of the wings?





Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon
Hot glue is fine for building foam airframes , you will learn to use it sparingly .



There are two paths you can take for your first foam scratch build :

1) Use plans . When you use plans : you need to download the plans , then print the plans .... usually in multiple tiles . Then the multiple tiles have to be assembled into one poster-sized sheet of plans . Then the plans have to be transferred/traced to the foam you will be using . Then you cut out the foam pieces and assemble them into an airframe .

2) Build an airframe that doesn't require plans .


The plane ( requiring plans ) I recommend most often for beginner builders/flyers is the EzFly . It is very stable , and can fly slowly if built lightweight . Also , it protects the motor/prop if crashed nose first .

Here is a video of one of my EzFlys flying :



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxaUadvhgbc





The plane ( that doesn't require plans ) I recommend most often for beginner builders/flyers is the Super Easy . It looks like a big paper airplane , but it is meant to be a disposable , real-world flying practice plane . It is not meant to be a beautiful display plane . The Super Easy also protects the motor/prop in a nose first crash .

Here is a video of a first time RC flyer/builder flying his Super Easy :



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAK9...&index=32&t=0s






Here is a later flight by the same guy and his Super Easy :



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T5-5lYiVOA
Sep 20, 2019, 05:52 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by McAl
Thanks so much , I just asked you for suggestions by PM and then found out you already posted it all here

I like both planes actually, the SuperEasy is quite ingenious in its simplicity.
But I do not mind printing the plan out for the EzFly. I have done it already today for one of the FliteTest plans, and while trimming and assembling the plan sheets takes a while, a quite a bit of tape, I found it manageable.

I might try and make the SuperEasy with my child though, I think he will find it fascinating and probably will not mind decorating it

Now I wish I had received my foam already

Out of curiosity, is the angle of the propeller in your Foggy determined by the design of the wings?
I like FliteTest , they have done a lot for this hobby . And I like their planes also , but their construction methods ( A-fold , B-fold , etc ) require foam board with paper skins on them . If you use foam board with paper skins , be aware that the paper skins are susceptible to moisture ..... and must be water-proofed with sealant or lightweight packing tape . The untreated paper skins can even absorb moisture from damp air , and the moisture can cause warping and/or delamination .

For any airframe you build , I strongly recommend doing glide tests over a vegetation cushion .... the thicker the better . If an airframe glides well , it will fly well when motorized . In the first video of my previous post , his Super Easy is saved by the thick vegetation cushion every time it goes down . To do glide tests , center all control surfaces .... and add weight to the nose for a proper CG .

RC airplanes with a nose-mounted motor/prop will often have a down-thrust angle and/or a right-thrust angle . On a plane with a high-lift under-cambered wing ( such as my Old Fogey-ish ) , the down-thrust helps keep the nose from ballooning ( floating up ) . And the right-thrust compensates for motor torque wanting to twist the plane to the left .
Last edited by balsa or carbon; Sep 20, 2019 at 11:00 PM.
Sep 20, 2019, 06:05 PM
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BTW : if in the UK , foam trays are used for packing meat or other groceries ..... there's a free source of foam for smaller builds . You could easily and quickly make a small foam chuck glider for building practice and glider practice .


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