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Sep 21, 2019, 03:30 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tipover
I find it hard to believe that $75 is a deal beaker for anyone remotely serious about the hobby. On the other hand I can understand folks canceling membership to cast their vote of disapproval. I'm fairly confident there could be a revival after a few years of fallout and restructuring.

The issue is your standard of “remotely serious.” The vast majority of the AMA’s target demographic are casual participants in the hobby. By that, I say they can take it or leave it. For them, the $75 is a rational financial choice of “what do I get for my money?”

If they don’t need field to fly large stuff, $75 for a magazine and secondary insurance is pretty steep.
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Sep 21, 2019, 04:04 PM
Hey Guys, Watch This.......
mike2663's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tipover
I find it hard to believe that $75 is a deal beaker for anyone remotely serious about the hobby. On the other hand I can understand folks canceling membership to cast their vote of disapproval. I'm fairly confident there could be a revival after a few years of fallout and restructuring.
It's not the $75 bucks , it's how it's spent and how the organization is run.

Mike
Sep 21, 2019, 04:12 PM
Short bursts, Don't waste ammo
RCAV8R1964's Avatar
Excellent Haiku! I have seen and continue to see a lot of what the Haiku covered. Even the RC online communities have changed.
Sep 21, 2019, 06:02 PM
Registered User
aeronaut999's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fliers1
Author unknown

Amusing

Meanwhile I just keep on wiggling the stick on at least a weekly basis and gravity is defied yet again -- no drama needed.
Sep 21, 2019, 06:07 PM
Registered User
aeronaut999's Avatar

More Haiku


Disbelieve the trolls
Bernoulli still works today
Wiggle the stick now
Sep 22, 2019, 12:25 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
The issue is your standard of “remotely serious.” The vast majority of the AMA’s target demographic are casual participants in the hobby. By that, I say they can take it or leave it. For them, the $75 is a rational financial choice of “what do I get for my money?”

If they don’t need field to fly large stuff, $75 for a magazine and secondary insurance is pretty steep.
For casual participants they do offer the Park Pilot membership($38) for electric only and under 2 lbs, with reduced insurance, and a quarterly magazine. My understanding is it still allows you to attend and fly at any AMA event as long as you fly under the restrictions of the PP membership. They also offer a 3 month trial membership($19.95) with full benefits(less voting privileges) for new members. You can have a lot of fun flying electric stuff up to 2 lbs, it's possibly the largest segment of the hobby. I really don't see the membership options as being out of line compared to something as casual as playing golf a few times per year.
Sep 22, 2019, 03:31 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tipover
For casual participants they do offer the Park Pilot membership($38) for electric only and under 2 lbs, with reduced insurance, and a quarterly magazine. My understanding is it still allows you to attend and fly at any AMA event as long as you fly under the restrictions of the PP membership. They also offer a 3 month trial membership($19.95) with full benefits(less voting privileges) for new members. You can have a lot of fun flying electric stuff up to 2 lbs, it's possibly the largest segment of the hobby. I really don't see the membership options as being out of line compared to something as casual as playing golf a few times per year.

I get there are cheaper options, albeit with restrictions. I don’t think golf is a good comparison, as you can’t really play a game of golf at the local park. On the other hand, you can fly a Heli or MR or foam plane at a park. And the whole PF thing assumes that one must be a member at all. And therein lies the AMAs problem.

In the industry’s zeal to bring in more people, they are producing more and more really nice sUAS. Whether MRs or scale foamies, or helis, many are able to be flown in the empty field down the street. Thus little if any incentive to join AMA, as they don’t “need” a club field.

AMA meanwhile has tried and failed to mandate membership. Rather than concentrating efforts on providing real value for membership, they’ve instead just yelled louder about “competition” and “advocacy.” Well, for the average hobby Flyer (see above), they could care less.

Hence the AMAs continued declining revenue. Combine that with unwillingness to cut costs and the downward spiral only worsens.
Sep 22, 2019, 05:28 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
I get there are cheaper options, albeit with restrictions. I don’t think golf is a good comparison, as you can’t really play a game of golf at the local park. On the other hand, you can fly a Heli or MR or foam plane at a park. And the whole PF thing assumes that one must be a member at all. And therein lies the AMAs problem.

In the industry’s zeal to bring in more people, they are producing more and more really nice sUAS. Whether MRs or scale foamies, or helis, many are able to be flown in the empty field down the street. Thus little if any incentive to join AMA, as they don’t “need” a club field.

AMA meanwhile has tried and failed to mandate membership. Rather than concentrating efforts on providing real value for membership, they’ve instead just yelled louder about “competition” and “advocacy.” Well, for the average hobby Flyer (see above), they could care less.

Hence the AMAs continued declining revenue. Combine that with unwillingness to cut costs and the downward spiral only worsens.
Of course I was directly responding to your claim that my definition of remotely serious was flawed, which I pointed out the other options for those with a more casual approach to the hobby, yet for some reason they desire AMA membership. As far as the AMA's survival goes, they will eventually downsize and meet their remaining members needs, or they will go away. I see that as very much a self governing situation. And so what if they do go away, will that cause any hardship on those causal fliers that have no need for a club flying field? Again, whether they sink or swim comes down to their own actions. It's not like they are forcing anyone without a need to buy a membership.
Sep 22, 2019, 07:03 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
I think one demographic that has been missed by Franklin is the renter who wants to fly small foamies in the park. What liability protection options besides AMA are available to that guy?
Sep 22, 2019, 07:09 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeronaut999
Amusing

Meanwhile I just keep on wiggling the stick on at least a weekly basis and gravity is defied yet again -- no drama needed.



I did a bit of stick wiggling over the weekend, you might be familiar with the location. Several hundred flights and not one FAA agent in sight.
Sep 22, 2019, 07:18 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
I think one demographic that has been missed by Franklin is the renter who wants to fly small foamies in the park. What liability protection options besides AMA are available to that guy?

And where is the requirement to carry insurance? Oh, that’s right. There isn’t one.
Sep 22, 2019, 07:28 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
And where is the requirement to carry insurance? Oh, that’s right. There isn’t one.


Some would say that flying in that environment without some sort of liability insurance is irresponsible. Your sarcasm does not answer the question now does it? I did not ask if it were a legal requirement, I asked if there were better options. If you can't answer that question I would prefer you say nothing at all as opposed to childish sarcasm.
Sep 22, 2019, 08:16 PM
BFMAC Founding Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
I think one demographic that has been missed by Franklin is the renter who wants to fly small foamies in the park. What liability protection options besides AMA are available to that guy?
The easy answer is no other option. If he is paranoid enough about protecting himself from financial ruin due to liability that may be incurred from that activity, why does he engage in it? Why does he need to do it in a park where other people he might endanger are present?
I really believe this is way out on the fringe of AMA's stated mission.
Sep 22, 2019, 08:46 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by abel pranger
The easy answer is no other option. If he is paranoid enough about protecting himself from financial ruin due to liability that may be incurred from that activity, why does he engage in it? Why does he need to do it in a park where other people he might endanger are present?
I really believe this is way out on the fringe of AMA's stated mission.

The question was posed to Franklin due to him stating that the guy who flies in a schoolyard or city park make up the bulk of people involved in the hobby. He also claims that AMA is of no value. IMO, two conflicting comments.

Why does anyone do anything? There is risk in driving to work. A person who decides to fly in a public location without liability protection is one who has deemed the activity as an acceptable risk. Personal choice, it's not a problem until it becomes a problem and then it is too late. A good example of this is the young adult in a New York park that crashed a quadcopter onto an infants face. The city convicted him of flying an aircraft in a location where it was prohibited. That gave the family pretty much a slam dunk in civil court.

AMA will cover as primary insurance to any member that are not home owners flying anywhere provided the AMA safety code is followed. That would imply that AMA is not trying to force people to join clubs. The park flyer membership is at a discounted rate, free for those under 18. That is pretty much doing everything possible to support all modelers while still providing liability protection at a very reasonable cost. If anyone can show me a better rate for non home owners I would love to see it.
Sep 22, 2019, 10:11 PM
BFMAC Founding Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
The question was posed to Franklin due to him stating that the guy who flies in a schoolyard or city park make up the bulk of people involved in the hobby. He also claims that AMA is of no value. IMO, two conflicting comments.

Why does anyone do anything? There is risk in driving to work. A person who decides to fly in a public location without liability protection is one who has deemed the activity as an acceptable risk. Personal choice, it's not a problem until it becomes a problem and then it is too late. A good example of this is the young adult in a New York park that crashed a quadcopter onto an infants face. The city convicted him of flying an aircraft in a location where it was prohibited. That gave the family pretty much a slam dunk in civil court.

AMA will cover as primary insurance to any member that are not home owners flying anywhere provided the AMA safety code is followed. That would imply that AMA is not trying to force people to join clubs. The park flyer membership is at a discounted rate, free for those under 18. That is pretty much doing everything possible to support all modelers while still providing liability protection at a very reasonable cost. If anyone can show me a better rate for non home owners I would love to see it.
Does AMA have a moral or legal imperative to support all recreational sUAS operators with liability protection whenever and wherever they want to fly whatever? Your example in the 2nd paragraph says they should. I disagree, but you are of course entitled to your opinion.


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