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Sep 13, 2019, 01:26 PM
Balsadustus Producerus
Thread OP
Discussion

FAA easing up a little.


Don't know how many here would be affected, but here it is:

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=94484

A foot in the door?
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Sep 13, 2019, 04:23 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Franklin started a doom and gloom thread last week painting this as the FAA stepping harder with their boot. Go figure. Depends on how you look at it. I agree, a little optimism from them for once.
Sep 13, 2019, 06:27 PM
Registered User
GeoffS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
... I agree, a little optimism from them for once.
Same here.
I would hope this is an example of how the FAA will approach easing many of the currently permanent restrictions and replacing them with a more easily available notification system (ex. part of the FAA UAS Data Exchange).

I'm particularly encouraged by the explicit time-frame for the publication and display of the various states the NOTAM has to go through.
Sep 13, 2019, 09:32 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
From one standpoint, you can call it easing. But that is looking only at it on the surface.

From a policy making and implementation standpoint, should enforcement be needed, it is much easier to make the case if the FAA has made it easier to comply. Which it does. Trust me, FAA is putting all the tools in place to make charges stick should there be a need.
Sep 13, 2019, 11:48 PM
Balsadustus Producerus
Thread OP
I should hope so:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-49673373

I really appreciate what the helicopter was doing, as described in the paragraph just below the photo of who I assume is/was the pilot. Ironic is typically Brit understatement
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Sep 14, 2019, 08:45 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsabird
Quote:
He appealed to the operator of the "very, very distinctive" device to come forward and said that police had been informed.
What's this very, very, distinctive device look like? Most drones aren't distinctive. Perhaps this one had feathers and a beak?

After the Gatwick thing, I'm not believing in any UK drones without clear imagery.
Sep 14, 2019, 11:04 AM
Balsadustus Producerus
Thread OP
How do you keep the sand from getting in your ears?

Nybbler, I have a favor to ask, if you would.

Next time you go somewhere in an airplane, from the A380 down to the smallest two-place, would you be so kind as to talk the flight crew into letting you install a GoPro, or whatever you might have handy, in the flight deck. Install it in such a way that you'll be able to video the entire flight, from takeoff to landing, all the way to destination, looking out the windscreen. Who knows, we might get lucky, catching, if nothing else, a haggis bird in flight.

I'm sure we all look forward to the results
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Sep 14, 2019, 04:11 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsabird
How do you keep the sand from getting in your ears?
That's the sort of thing people were saying about Gatwick. But at the end of the day, nary a drone was found.

Quote:
Next time you go somewhere in an airplane, from the A380 down to the smallest two-place, would you be so kind as to talk the flight crew into letting you install a GoPro, or whatever you might have handy, in the flight deck.
Oh, right, I'm going to get a flight crew to install some electronics on the flight deck. Sounds like a great way to end up in a cell for suspected terrorism.
Sep 15, 2019, 02:04 AM
Balsadustus Producerus
Thread OP
So, unless the crew can be convinced to do that for you, getting the video evidence you require will be difficult at best. There may even be company restrictions about video recording inflight crew duties. It's true, there are many such videos out there, public and/or private, of just that. Those probably require company authorization. I doubt any crew member would risk that job for a fling at producing a private video for our benefit.

So, where does that leave us?

Absolutely, a real-time video, with position, timestamps, pan, zoom and all the rest would provide invaluable information on any possible drone interference, strike or not. A version of something like ForeFlight for keeping track of all that would be very good. However, this would require everything in the air to be having this equipment, someone operating it, decent weather--daytime preferably--the airplane and drone at correct position, altitude, azimuth, knowing the direction from where it will appear so the camera will see it, close enough to identify without endangering either the airplane or drone, but able to positively ID it as an actual multi-rotor, and, finally, bonne chance.

If people continue to operate drones in a careless and reckless manner, without the slightest concern for the welfare of others, insisting to do this for YouTube fame, figuratively flipping off the FAA with statements like;

--It hasn't happened yet after all these years, so it won't,

--I have my rights and don't care for the hollow threats of the FAA or anyone else,

--Everybody else is doing it,

--At least, I won't be on that manned airplane if something goes wrong,

--I'm going to do what I want, and if someone doesn't like it, they can go and...'place your favorite rude suggestion here',

--They don't have the ability or drive to actually follow up on their threats, rules, tests, involving LEO's and all the rest,

don't be too surprised if the Fed clamps down on ALL model flying, drone or fixed-wing. Licencing, tests; both written and practical, and probably oral, so the examiner can get a feel for the applicant's attitude (I've been in that position multiple times for flying full-size--actually, it's ongoing), recurrent reviews, severe limitations on how, when, where and possibly even why you want to fly this, restrictions of all sorts, limited only by the FAA's imagination, registration fees, taxes, charges, call them what you will--all these could eventually define and control later what we take for granted today. It could follow, the only R/C flying will be for commercial interests, probably certificated in some fashion. Does that appeal to you? I'm not aiming only at Nybbler, but to everybody reading this.

It would be very understandable, if the FAA did follow through on these things. It's been said elsewhere on this forum, if registration and money becomes required, these renegade drone operators will simply go to underground operations, and I would expect that. So would the Fed. They don't have to catch a large number of these operators, just enough to get the message across to the ones not yet caught. It would be easy to implement and follow up:

"Let me see your registration, etc..."

and start enforcement proceedings if you can't produce that paperwork, or whatever documentation they may require you to carry. If nothing else, it will be another source of income. Think "cash cow". Do you really want to help the Fed pushing in that direction?

You're not going to like this one bit, but it's exactly the reason the CAA was formed in the Twenties, for full-size screw-ups doing then what many drone operators are doing now. The current FAA will be more than happy to make examples of whoever they catch and prosecute. There could be a time of interfering with law-abiding citizens while those who ignore the law get ground down to dust, but that's happened before, and is going on right now in full-size. You want to fly, then you have a long list of qualifications to be met before you will be allowed, and it won't take much of a mistake to lose it all. Eventually, those who follow the law will go on flying models, those who don't will be excluded. Something like this has been in effect in England for some time, requiring training, flight checks, equipment checks and the like before you can fly alone without someone looking over your shoulder. Scream about freedoms, complain about Big Brother, the Fed, monitoring your flight activities, wave the Flag and quote the Constitution, any amendments and Bill of Rights you want to, continued disregard for the safety of those who you fly over, or who fly professionally, with passengers especially, but even commercial flying with no one but the crew on board, will result in this hobby, sport, call it what you want, being shut down. Don't even expect the AMA to protect us against that possibility, they aren't set up for it. Preserving how we fly models for the future is up to each and every individual flying R/C today. That's referred to as 'community responsibility'. Holding the AMA responsible for preventing the Fed taking what could be excessive actions against responsible modelers when so many drone operators figuratively tell them "piss off", is unreasonable.

That would really suck, as it's completely unnecessary, but warranted if this cavalier attitude of drone operators continues.

PS,

No, Nybbler, please don't try that
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Sep 15, 2019, 02:55 AM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
And soon will be the “how they will know it’s you” piece.

From 5 days ago:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/...oteid.amp.html

“Developed with input from civil aviation authorities such as the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Transport Canada, as well as leaders in the drone industry, the would be standard was submitted to global standards organization ASTM International (originally the American Society for Testing and Materials) on 5 September and will be out for ballot on 9 September.”
Sep 15, 2019, 10:43 AM
Registered User
GeoffS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
And soon will be the “how they will know it’s you” piece.
From 5 days ago:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/...oteid.amp.html ...
"When it comes to radio-controlled model aircraft, the remote pilots of these vehicles can use a smartphone app to report the ID of the aircraft and the location and time of operation to remote ID authorities."
Sep 15, 2019, 12:04 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
And soon will be the “how they will know it’s you” piece.

From 5 days ago:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/...oteid.amp.html

“Developed with input from civil aviation authorities such as the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Transport Canada, as well as leaders in the drone industry, the would be standard was submitted to global standards organization ASTM International (originally the American Society for Testing and Materials) on 5 September and will be out for ballot on 9 September.”
This is pretty lame even by I triple E standards.

DJI already had their version of RID and who cares about them anyway. BFHD!

BT5 is a joke for RC.
Sep 15, 2019, 11:04 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsabird
don't be too surprised if the Fed clamps down on ALL model flying, drone or fixed-wing.
We're already there. Flying model aircraft is formally illegal in the US without passing a test that hasn't been written and following a set of guidelines which haven't been written by a CBO which hasn't been certified. The FAA has an "advisory circular" which says if you follow their decrees they won't enforce the parts of the law which can't be followed, but that's it.

No amount of what the FAA (or substitute your country's regulator) is going to do, however, is going to make every claim a pilot makes that they saw a drone actually be a drone. The FAA has piles and piles of drone sightings, most of them junk. They made no attempt to vet them, because the point wasn't to determine if there was an issue; the point was to build support for a statutory framework they wanted anyway.

Gatwick was shut down over Christmas over "drones" which turned out to be some combination of construction lights, law enforcement drones sent out to find the original drones, broken office furniture (yes, really), and mass hysteria. No civilian drone.

No amount of good behavior by modelers or drone pilots can do anything about fantasy encounters.


It turns out that air ambulance crew which saw a drone had just attended a "drone awareness course". Yep, they were primed to see a "drone", and they saw a "drone".
Sep 17, 2019, 02:01 AM
lurking in the HOLE :)
KCV6's Avatar
And you are a drone operator which apparently primes you to, almost without fail, deny that any drone sighting is a drone sighting. Go figure. None of which helps our cause.
Sep 17, 2019, 09:05 AM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
I question many drone sightings as well and I am mostly a fixed wing RC model airplane pilot.

When I was flying manned A/C it was not an infrequent occurrence to miss traffic calls by ATC. Myself, and another pilot, missed a G4 at our 12 o'clock and 1,000 feet above us. Happens all the time.

I've circled an RC soaring event location on the practice day before the actual event in a plane with another model pilot an while we could see numerous people on the ground clearly looking up, we failed to see any of the dozen or so 4-meter gliders in the sky.

Not all drone sightings as wrong, but many are questionable at best.


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