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Sep 14, 2019, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nopedagd
An electrician I work with said brushless drones are AC motors instead of DC motors so you can have a lot more control because there is current in both directions and also I'm guessing it is somehow more efficient. But the batteries are all going to be DC right? So there would have to be some sort of inverter?

You mentioned a receiver. Is that another term for a controller or a radio? Can you tell me what specifically to look for in a controller in the future since I don't care to be doing flips and spins but just for basic flying? There are so many out there. My interest would be in doing basic flying control and being able to control pretty much any drone I decide to try out if that's possible. Then it would be a matter of how to bind? link? the drone to the controller....I still have no real clue about that. In my notes there's a link to a Youtube video where the guy is binding a Beebrain to his radio. It looks pretty complicated, but with that sort of instruction I could learn to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV2r7834TF4

Would all radios have their own standard step by step process that would work to establish communication with any new type of drone?
A receiver is the term for the quad side of the controller the other side is often called the transmitter or rx and tx for short. For a controller that can bind to basically any receiver you'll want either a jumpertx brand that come with a 4 in 1 module or a frsky brand radio with a 4 in 1 multi module. The other option is to get a walkera devo radio compatible with deviationtx firmware and load that firmware and solder in a 4 in 1 radio chip board. There are some how to's on deviationtx.com or YouTube for the devo route. The thing to know if you want to control basically anything is you need something that says 4 in 1 module meaning it has 4 radio chips built into it. Binding is the term for linking the radio control transmitter and reciever together it is pretty simple you go into the menu on the transmitter where you select the model and there will be a series of protocols (the language of the rc link) select the one your receiver uses and there will be a bind button right next to it, you then have to put the receiver into bind mode as well some like frsky are as simple as pushing a physical button on the rx some you have to go through beta flight and set them to bind and with most toy quads they go into bind mode automatically when they're turned on.

Any aerobatics are just a function of the flight controller board on the quad itself with them having three standard flight modes being auto level also known as angle mode where the quad has a bank angle that is controlled by the position of the stick on your transmitter this mode will not allow the quad to go upside down and if you return the stick to center the quad will auto level hence the name. The next mode is horizon which is the same as auto level but, when you move the stick past a certain percentage it will continue in that direction as if in the final mode which is known as acro. Acro is the mode that is 100% user controlled with the flight control board only stabilizing the quads movements this means the quad stays in whatever position you put it in and the stick controls how fast it spins rolls or turns instead of the angle as in auto level. Acro gives the most control and is less effected by wind but, you need to be on the sticks at all times. You can also get into more advanced aerial photography style drones like what DJI sells with GPS hold and return to home or autonomous flight paths but, that's kind of a separate side of the hobby.

Also I don't think our brushless motors are a traditional a.c. motor it is a pulsed dc current. So it just takes the dc from the battery and sends it to one phase at a time using the electromagnetic feedback from the other phases to know which to pulse.

Edit: This video shows a pretty good idea of building that same kit I linked. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...N8ZFOD4xbU2nov It is a bit older and the setup is now done with beta flight instead of clean flight but, it's still the exact same process. Beta flight is based off clean flight which is based off base flight which is based off multiwii but, that's just little quadcopter history not really something you need to know.
Last edited by microwhoop; Sep 14, 2019 at 11:50 PM.
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Sep 15, 2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanuser
wait. didn't i suggest the e011 in like post #3 and 12...?
Oh yeah the one with the guy with the sword. I got the E013. Would the E011 be better for some reasons? You also told me about the value of a good radio and I'm still trying to get a basic understanding of all this. Not just what it all is but how it all works together and what will and won't work together and how to get things to work together....
Sep 15, 2019, 04:55 PM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
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I think it's basically the same quad, just with the fpv cam and cheapie goggles included and slightly nicer transmitter.
So you should be fine to start out.
....
But,
In 6 months you'll like be buying 300$ goggles and 100$ transmitter. And a brushless quad.
Sep 15, 2019, 05:18 PM
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I have two E011, they have quite powerful 716 motors and can flash silverware but e013 cannot. The old golden quad's performance did not stand a change to face newer stuff flashed with silverware.
Sep 15, 2019, 05:26 PM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
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new versions of e011 cannot be flashed. or so i hear.
Sep 15, 2019, 08:12 PM
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The main difference is the e011 has 7x16mm instead of 6x15mm motors. Then the board in the e011 has proportional yaw where the e013 apparently only had one yaw speed. You can also control the e011 with a good transmitter, they are no longer able to be flashed with silverware unless it's the e011c. You can still get the bwhoop b03 that has 7x16 motors and can be flashed with silverware, it is also slightly cheaper.
Sep 15, 2019, 09:54 PM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanuser
I think it's basically the same quad, just with the fpv cam and cheapie goggles included and slightly nicer transmitter.
So you should be fine to start out.
....
But,
In 6 months you'll like be buying 300$ goggles and 100$ transmitter. And a brushless quad.
LOL! You may be right about that, though I was hoping this setup would hold me for a year. Already thinking about a radio. Not caring to do flips and rolls but could it help with longer range? Better control...more precise? Able to control more drones I guess would be the main thing and more as they become available being able to buy the drone only without a full kit or a controller.
Sep 15, 2019, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microwhoop
The main difference is the e011 has 7x16mm instead of 6x15mm motors. Then the board in the e011 has proportional yaw where the e013 apparently only had one yaw speed. You can also control the e011 with a good transmitter, they are no longer able to be flashed with silverware unless it's the e011c. You can still get the bwhoop b03 that has 7x16 motors and can be flashed with silverware, it is also slightly cheaper.
I'm trying to understand all the information you keep sharing and add it to my notes and read it over and over again. Sometimes it seems I get a little more understanding but at the same time it brings up more questions. Then I try to learn more about it at youtube and other places. Here a guy is showing how to flash something but I don't know if it's silverware or not, but maybe the procedure is pretty much the same:
How to Flash the Eachine E011 with an Acro Firmware (4 min 14 sec)

That sure looks like a lot of technical work plus potential for wrecking the drone. So then the question arises why to go through all that for a ~$15 drone? Is it for the satisfaction and challenge of doing such a seemingly complex procedure to get that cheap drone to do what you want, or would it be a lot more money to buy a similar drone that's already set up that way, or maybe they don't even make any (yet) that are set up that way?

Also here:
https://betafpv.com/products/betafpv...ght-controller
looks like something that might be able to save a few steps for people who are modifying and building these little drones so I wanted to share it in case it could help anyone.

I'm wondering what people think about the e012? Also keep seeing people mention the bwhoop b03 as you did but that's not fpv is it? But is it something that's good for modifying?
Last edited by nopedagd; Sep 15, 2019 at 10:15 PM.
Sep 15, 2019, 10:18 PM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
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for some of us part of the enjoyment of the hobby is getting the most out of a cheap toy. and for others we just want to simply unbox and fly. there is no one right way/

that video i showed of a e011 is stock other than removing the sword guy and the canopy, and sticking $15 FPV camera on it. I am using a multiprotocol 4-in-1 modded devo 7e to control it and $400 fatsharks. -with the antennas and receiver.
Sep 16, 2019, 11:50 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by nopedagd
I'm trying to understand all the information you keep sharing and add it to my notes and read it over and over again. Sometimes it seems I get a little more understanding but at the same time it brings up more questions. Then I try to learn more about it at youtube and other places. Here a guy is showing how to flash something but I don't know if it's silverware or not, but maybe the procedure is pretty much the same:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRfEtujo7K0
That sure looks like a lot of technical work plus potential for wrecking the drone. So then the question arises why to go through all that for a ~$15 drone? Is it for the satisfaction and challenge of doing such a seemingly complex procedure to get that cheap drone to do what you want, or would it be a lot more money to buy a similar drone that's already set up that way, or maybe they don't even make any (yet) that are set up that way?

Also here:
https://betafpv.com/products/betafpv...ght-controller
looks like something that might be able to save a few steps for people who are modifying and building these little drones so I wanted to share it in case it could help anyone.

I'm wondering what people think about the e012? Also keep seeing people mention the bwhoop b03 as you did but that's not fpv is it? But is it something that's good for modifying?
When silverware (which is what's in that video) was created there wasn't much in the way of micro brushed boards that could fly acro. Personally though I think silverware flies a lot better than betaflight and the e011 board is the lightest weight board available. Which isn't a huge deal its only a fraction of a gram but, on something that only weighs 20 grams that can make a difference. It also has some other things that are nice for me like you can add a fet for a remote on off switch to turn off the fpv transmitter to keep the battery from over discharging when you crash in the tall grass or a tree.

Once you get into building electronics with arduino and flashing everything you can with open source firmware. The stuff in that e011 flashing video is pretty simple. Most people in the hobby now days though never need to learn any of that unless they're into building things themselves and getting everything you can out of stuff. I compile my own Beta flight and inav builds as well when I want a feature that isn't in the main build, it's just something I like doing and to fit my needs you won't need to worry about any of that though just plug in and fly is pretty much all that most need to know.

Also the b03 and e011 are great for making your own fpv quad because they have a little bit bigger motor than the e010 or e013 and if I'm thinking of the right quad the e012 is a smaller quad than the others and isn't any good for fpv. Don't worry about silverware though if you're not flying acro it won't really make a difference other than you can get battery voltage sent to your transmitter but, you can just set a 3 minute timer on the transmitter instead or wait till you see the leds flashing in the camera.
Sep 18, 2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microwhoop
When silverware (which is what's in that video) was created there wasn't much in the way of micro brushed boards that could fly acro. Personally though I think silverware flies a lot better than betaflight and the e011 board is the lightest weight board available. Which isn't a huge deal its only a fraction of a gram but, on something that only weighs 20 grams that can make a difference. It also has some other things that are nice for me like you can add a fet for a remote on off switch to turn off the fpv transmitter to keep the battery from over discharging when you crash in the tall grass or a tree.

Once you get into building electronics with arduino and flashing everything you can with open source firmware. The stuff in that e011 flashing video is pretty simple. Most people in the hobby now days though never need to learn any of that unless they're into building things themselves and getting everything you can out of stuff. I compile my own Beta flight and inav builds as well when I want a feature that isn't in the main build, it's just something I like doing and to fit my needs you won't need to worry about any of that though just plug in and fly is pretty much all that most need to know.

Also the b03 and e011 are great for making your own fpv quad because they have a little bit bigger motor than the e010 or e013 and if I'm thinking of the right quad the e012 is a smaller quad than the others and isn't any good for fpv. Don't worry about silverware though if you're not flying acro it won't really make a difference other than you can get battery voltage sent to your transmitter but, you can just set a 3 minute timer on the transmitter instead or wait till you see the leds flashing in the camera.
You sure seem to know a lot about the nitty gritty on this stuff. Would you consider writing up a history of the micro whoops and how/when new things were introduced? That might be the best way for new people to get a good basic understanding of what's going on. It would probably be a pain for you to put together to begin with, but then it might even start to be fun later when something new comes along and all you have to do is add it to your continuing history....
Sep 18, 2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nopedagd
You sure seem to know a lot about the nitty gritty on this stuff. Would you consider writing up a history of the micro whoops and how/when new things were introduced? That might be the best way for new people to get a good basic understanding of what's going on. It would probably be a pain for you to put together to begin with, but then it might even start to be fun later when something new comes along and all you have to do is add it to your continuing history....
I don't mind answering questions especially if it helps somebody get into this hobby I love so much and maybe if a couple people start a history thread I'd add to it but, really now days whoops are pretty much all brushless multi cell and I always try and stay on single cell for micro quads. Also they're normally called tiny whoops because a guy named Jesse Perkins took a blade inductrix quad and slapped a micro camera on it then sold it for a decent profit. I picked the name micro whoop because I built a smaller version of the tiny whoop.

Here's a pic of what I considered a micro whoop. It didn't fly acro very well though I think the props were too close together. It wasn't bad for cruising around the house in level mode though.


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