Thread Tools
Sep 08, 2019, 08:26 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Discussion

FAA test for RC fixed wing?


• Eric Williams (District II) noted that the FAA testing boards seem to agree that the proposed tests need
to be on the level of a 13-year-old. Eric has worked with the FAA from the perspective of a modeler. He
expects the testing result to be something along the line of possibly a 1-hour informational presentation
and then the test.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Sep 08, 2019, 08:39 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Oops, didn't see this subject was already posted. My bad.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...reational-Test
Last edited by fliers1; Sep 08, 2019 at 11:15 AM.
Sep 09, 2019, 04:40 AM
Registered User
The knowledge test will be determined by the FAA. Yes, this material is well within the capabilities of a 13 year old. The testing requirements continues to be debated in several forums. If you look up FAA AC 91-57B, you will see the direction of the FAA. When the FAA writes regulations about flying on controlled airspace and FAR's. You should assume they will include these in the test. To know the difference between controlled and uncontrolled airspace, you we need to know how to read an aviation sectional chart.

I doubt this can be covered in a simple 1 hour presentation. Where would you go for this presentation? The FAA has requested information from those who are interested in administering these test. That has also been discussed in these forums. When you read this you will understand this testing will not be simple and may require you to go to a FAA testing center that charges for the service.

It is a good idea to read the information from the FAA and determine for yourself how simple this may be.

https://faaco.faa.gov/index.cfm/atta...ownload/102747

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_91-57B.pdf
Sep 09, 2019, 10:30 AM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
FWIW, here is the exact clause from the law requiring the test for recreational sUAS flying:

Quote:
“(g) Aeronautical Knowledge And Safety Test.—

“(1) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this section, the Administrator, in consultation with manufacturers of unmanned aircraft systems, other industry stakeholders, and community-based organizations, shall develop an aeronautical knowledge and safety test, which can then be administered electronically by the Administrator, a community-based organization, or a person designated by the Administrator.

“(2) REQUIREMENTS.—The Administrator shall ensure the aeronautical knowledge and safety test is designed to adequately demonstrate an operator’s—

“(A) understanding of aeronautical safety knowledge; and

“(B) knowledge of Federal Aviation Administration regulations and requirements pertaining to the operation of an unmanned aircraft system in the national airspace system.
Sep 09, 2019, 11:50 AM
Registered User
GSXR1000's Avatar
People who want to fly, will still keep on flying, There will be 2 groups of fliers, those who went through the red tape and jumped through hoops that are OK with all the regulations and the "outlaw" flier. I know people who will do what needs to be done to fly legally and I know people who won't go through all the hoops, but they can fly just as good or better than people who will fly legally. Personally I don't mind going to the steps to stay as a legal flier, but I know people who I would trust flying rc, that don't want to go through the hassle of flying legal. I don't judge either way, do what makes you happy... If you fly legal, good for you, if you are going to be a "outlaw" flier good for you. To each their own.

There will be many "outlaw" fliers, but you know what, if they are out in the boonies at a rural field, they probably will never get visited by the FFA or LEO's, only the city/urban "outlaw" flier may have a issue, but if LEO's or FFA never visits, they'll be ok to.
Sep 09, 2019, 04:05 PM
Registered User
Ah yes, history repeating itself.

This happened 14 years ago in the ultralight community, when the Sport Pilot Regulations came out. First there were banditos (we preferred banditos because it's sexier) who flew (according to the FnAA) ultralights that were to heavy and had an extra seat. Instead of sucking it up and getting legal, a lot of us, "just flew anyway". For a while this was kewl - because the FnAA did not actively pursue enforcement _and they still don't_ unless there is a complaint (they are required by law to act on a complaint)... But the problem is that being a bandito begins to rag on you after awhile, always looking over your shoulder and all - not know who was going to rat you out. So dropouts starting occurring. And on the legal side less and less people were willing to "suck it up" and fly the expensive FnAA way so their numbers also started dropping.

The result was less and less people flying until ultralighting DIED!

Welcome to your future.
Sep 10, 2019, 08:08 AM
Culper Junior
I can see that ^^ happening. Model Aviation has very little draw to the general public and having to do ‘Federal stuff’ is intimidating if you are only mildly interested. Most will shrug their shoulders and go back to their simulator and bag of Doritos.

The AMA, in their efforts to become THE governing body of model airplanedom in the U.S. is kowtowing to the FAA for that privilege and will do whatever the FAA wants to get there. Even subjecting their own members to testing what was a given freedom only a few years ago. But it will bite them in the end. The majority of airplane modelers is in the older half of our population and if the AMA is banking on a new generation of drone flyers to carry them on its false thinking. Drones are already petering out in popularity for hobbyists due to their registration requirements. I prolly won’t live long enough to see it but the AMA will collapse from their own secular choosing.
Last edited by aeronca52; Sep 10, 2019 at 08:16 AM.
Sep 10, 2019, 10:55 AM
Registered User
GSXR1000's Avatar
Yep, glad I never sold my revo or tmaxx... I can always teach my kids how to car bash get them a nice lectric truck basher
Sep 10, 2019, 09:24 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
It sounds like the AMA is losing there way.
The AMA has long time for aircraft (free flight, control line and later RC)

I can not see how the new Drones will last as bording just flying around and around. Not say it fad but like bike you ride for time and sits in corner.

Model plane you fly power, all types from scale to your own drawings, slope gliders and thermal glides, include buying per built , kits to made at home.

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by aeronca52
I can see that ^^ happening. Model Aviation has very little draw to the general public and having to do ‘Federal stuff’ is intimidating if you are only mildly interested. Most will shrug their shoulders and go back to their simulator and bag of Doritos.

The AMA, in their efforts to become THE governing body of model airplanedom in the U.S. is kowtowing to the FAA for that privilege and will do whatever the FAA wants to get there. Even subjecting their own members to testing what was a given freedom only a few years ago. But it will bite them in the end. The majority of airplane modelers is in the older half of our population and if the AMA is banking on a new generation of drone flyers to carry them on its false thinking. Drones are already petering out in popularity for hobbyists due to their registration requirements. I prolly won’t live long enough to see it but the AMA will collapse from their own secular choosing.
Sep 11, 2019, 07:02 AM
Registered User
While this has little to do with the upcoming FAA tests, I will give you my thoughts.

First look around your club, what is the average age? The only young people (very few at that) we have in our club are family members of those who have been in the hobby for years.

The hobby industry has changed and is undercutting both the AMA and clubs. You do not need building nor flying skills. You do not need the knowledge base and help that is within clubs. You don't even need a club flying field. Ready built airplanes with auto control flight gyros to prevent crashes designed to be flown in small spaces with electric motors is today's hobby industry.

With declining AMA membership, the AMA saw the drones as new members. They did not understand the typical drone flying has no interest in aviation nor the AMA. They are only interested in these high tech toys with cameras. If you take away the camera, they have no interest at all.
Sep 11, 2019, 09:50 AM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
I tried to think through what might be on the test just based on the law or things already implemented, for example the flight in controlled airspace. It was an interesting exercise, as the topics pile up fast, and it starts looking much more like the 107 level of content vs. a simplistic approach.

Controlled Airspace
One must first know there is a difference between controlled airspace, and where it is, which means learning the types and how to find on a chart. It also means one must also know you need permission to fly there, and how to go about getting it. That means an understanding of altitude limits by sector, etc. And since permission is contingent on following NOTAMs/TFRs, then this means knowing what they are, how to find them, and how to interpret them. And that in turn means some understanding of definitions, so that when you read in a NOTAM that it applies to “all aircraft” that it also means it applies to recreational sUAS.

Uncontrolled Airspace
Similarly, if not controlled airspace, one would have to know how to determine if it is or not, what are legal limits for ops, and the same NOTAM / TFR issues as above. Additionally, one would need to know about standing limits on flight near national security events (NFL, MLB, NASCAR, etc.).

All Cases
One would need to know about see and avoid obligation, other legal requirements under the FAR, as well as what is and is not allowed under recreational carve out. I suppose there might be a question or two about who is ultimate authority, a CBO or the FAA? There’s probably a few more things too. And we haven’t even touched on RemoteID.

Speaking of things we haven’t touched on, folks looking for waivers to class G limits might want to think about that in the context of what it means for the test. If the FAA creates a waiver process, you can expect questions about it. What they are, how to get them, what other airspace knowledge / chart knowledge might be needed, and any additional requirements like spotters or altitude reporting equipment the FAA might require. Adding to the complexity and knowledge requirements.

Summary
When you look at all the above topics, it’s not a trivial test. And yes, written to a 13 year old sounds promising, but at 13 kids are taking algebra, trig, and some fairly sophisticated literature courses.

So I don’t think this is going to be the the “pick the correct spelling of AMA from the following four choices..” type test that AMA wants.
Sep 11, 2019, 10:21 AM
Registered User
The FAA has the responsibility to protect the national airspace system. Congress has passed a law that requires recreational UAS operators to pass a test. If the FAA dumbes this down to a one hour presentation them 10 true false questions. The FAA is not doing its job.

If this comes to pass, the news media will quickly expose the ultra simple test when someone violates a TFR or more. I do not think the FAA wants this exposure. This will be seen by millions of air traveling passengers who are the biggest user of the National Airspace System, they will demand a change.

My advice is to read AC 91-57B and the FAA knowledge test RFI and decide for yourself what is coming.

Yes, 13 year olds are smarter than we were at 13. The test material will be well within the capabilities of the average modeler, just have to do a little studying.
Sep 11, 2019, 10:59 AM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
Study again #$&/@#

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray93J
The FAA has the responsibility to protect the national airspace system. Congress has passed a law that requires recreational UAS operators to pass a test. If the FAA dumbes this down to a one hour presentation them 10 true false questions. The FAA is not doing its job.

If this comes to pass, the news media will quickly expose the ultra simple test when someone violates a TFR or more. I do not think the FAA wants this exposure. This will be seen by millions of air traveling passengers who are the biggest user of the National Airspace System, they will demand a change.

My advice is to read AC 91-57B and the FAA knowledge test RFI and decide for yourself what is coming.

Yes, 13 year olds are smarter than we were at 13. The test material will be well within the capabilities of the average modeler, just have to do a little studying.
Sep 11, 2019, 02:17 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Recruiting new blood in the hobby was apparently difficult enough in the past, now with the intrusion of the FAA and a possible involved test, I think you can count on the organizational part of the hobby to go under much sooner. I have no trouble getting people to fly my trainer, but then I have to explain all the hoops they have to jump through, and that was before the drone invasion.
Sep 11, 2019, 02:46 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
Computer games have taking told on all hobbies. It low cost, inside and heated and cooled. Some spending all money on guns , bulits and getting ready for the ???

Recruiting for any hobby may not work.
You need a passion for hobby.

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by fliers1
Recruiting new blood in the hobby was apparently difficult enough in the past, now with the intrusion of the FAA and a possible involved test, I think you can count on the organizational part of the hobby to go under much sooner. I have no trouble getting people to fly my trainer, but then I have to explain all the hoops they have to jump through, and that was before the drone invasion.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Product HGLRC 20x20 2-8S F405-WING (New) Flight Controller for RC Airplane Fixed Wing HGLRCFPV Multirotor Drone Electronics 1 May 22, 2019 05:07 AM
Discussion Static bench testing vs Unloaded free flight for fixed wing? Ari33 Electric Motor Design and Construction 0 Jan 21, 2018 09:37 PM
Discussion Siglomaxtech X-2 Super advanced autopilot for Fixed-Wing Free Test Fernandoluis FPV Equipment 14 Oct 24, 2016 04:43 AM
Discussion New to FPV for fixed wing RC spikef22 FPV Talk 3 Jul 31, 2016 06:17 AM
New Product JCX-M6 Flight Controller for RC Airplane RC Model Plane FPV Fixed-wing Airplane wenney2009 FPV Talk 3 Jun 19, 2012 05:10 AM