View Poll Results: Would obeying a 400' limit reduce your enjoyment of hobby?
Yes or probably 72 61.02%
No or probably not 37 31.36%
I don't have a good enough sense of what 400' high looks to say yes or no 9 7.63%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Sep 06, 2019, 06:45 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
The federal has the right over 200 foot
If close to airport it is lower.

In most of California you own to center of Earth.
You need read your to find this as oil companies may rights under your home
This part many different on other states


Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
They aren't bothering anyone. A couple things came to mind while driving to the flying field today:

1. Why bother citing anyone now when a waiver process for fixed sites will be in place by the time the case makes it to court?

2. If your fixed site is on private property such as my home field, doesn't any law enforcement including the FAA need a warrant prior to accessing the property?

However in spite of pages of arguments, there are hundreds of guys like me all over the country who while at the flying field will have virtually zero concern over all this hoopla.
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Sep 11, 2019, 03:12 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
They aren't bothering anyone. A couple things came to mind while driving to the flying field today:

1. Why bother citing anyone now when a waiver process for fixed sites will be in place by the time the case makes it to court?

2. If your fixed site is on private property such as my home field, doesn't any law enforcement including the FAA need a warrant prior to accessing the property?

However in spite of pages of arguments, there are hundreds of guys like me all over the country who while at the flying field will have virtually zero concern over all this hoopla.
Warrant?Warrant? We don't need no steenking warrant!the Fourth Amendment be d#$%^%!
Sep 11, 2019, 03:17 PM
Registered User
aeronaut999's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
1. Why bother citing anyone now when a waiver process for fixed sites will be in place by the time the case makes it to court?
Good to know. Thanks for sharing this info.
Sep 11, 2019, 03:24 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeronaut999
Good to know. Thanks for sharing this info.

Don't take that as factual. IMO all indications are pointing that direction however only time will tell.
Sep 11, 2019, 06:13 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
In most of California you own to center of Earth.
You might want to check that with a capable real estate attorney. In most places in this state you own neither the mineral nor water rights under your property.
Sep 11, 2019, 10:54 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
You do to need look the dead for mineral rights .
But do collect the mineral in most cases you own the the land . Some dead will spec out
Water is own by state.
Thermal rights that different story.

Most APN will show a "S" which may or may own to center of Earth.

I have only own one dead that had a "S" it clearly stated I own the first 500 feet of mineral and the RR own below 500 feet but can drill water well to center of Earth and no lawyer new if had thermal rights.

But still some has a dead to center just some maybe split

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
You might want to check that with a capable real estate attorney. In most places in this state you own neither the mineral nor water rights under your property.
Last edited by smithdoor; Sep 11, 2019 at 11:25 PM.
Sep 11, 2019, 11:09 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
That's all fine and dandy but it has nothing to do with my comment on whether or not the FAA can access a flying field that is located on private property without a warrant or not.
Sep 11, 2019, 11:26 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
That's all fine and dandy but it has nothing to do with my comment on whether or not the FAA can access a flying field that is located on private property without a warrant or not.

I would argue they probably need a warrant, but there might be some obscure section of USC that allows it without one. Even if not, if it’s important enough that they consider entering, getting Federal LE to get a warrant wouldn’t take long.

Besides, if nothing else, they sit outside on public property, observe whatever they need to generate probable cause, and temporarily detain folks as they leave.
Sep 11, 2019, 11:40 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
LOL, I can see that conversation.

Sir, we observed you flying your model airplane over 400'

How do you know it was my airplane?

Sir, it looked like the airplane in the back of your SUV.

Are you sure it was me who was flying it?

Um.....no

How did you determine it was over 400'

Well sir, it appeared higher then 400'

So you have no evidence it was my airplane, me at the controls or that I was higher the 400'...........Bye Felicia........
Sep 12, 2019, 12:03 AM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
This conversation is hilarious. Does anyone truly think the FAA is going to be sending out enforcement squads to model airplane fields? Really?

There are 2 ways people may get twisted up with the FAA:

1) commit some egregious act that garners public notice or otherwise do something to bring attention to yourself.

2) Some Adam-Henry turns you in. And even then, based on experience with Part 107 enforcement even then you are going to need some pretty good evidence that an incident occurred that endangered the NAS before they act.

Here's a note from the FAA Reporting Hotline:

Quote:
*NOTE: We will not accept a report with just a link(s) to a video(s) without supporting information. Simply sending a link to a social media site and stating a violation has occurred is not sufficient to take further action. Please note, even if a violation has occurred, federal rules of evidence severely limit the use of a video on a social media site as evidence unless the operator admits to taking the video or there is a witness who saw the alleged violation take place.
https://hotline.faa.gov/
Sep 12, 2019, 05:02 AM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
LOL, I can see that conversation.

Sir, we observed you flying your model airplane over 400'

How do you know it was my airplane?

Sir, it looked like the airplane in the back of your SUV.

Are you sure it was me who was flying it?

Um.....no

How did you determine it was over 400'

Well sir, it appeared higher then 400'

So you have no evidence it was my airplane, me at the controls or that I was higher the 400'...........Bye Felicia........

The way it would work is more like this. Two scenarios:

(1) Some sort of serious event that draws attention. Say LE gets information about the offending toy plane ... size, color, even type.

(2) LE responds.

(2a) If they see plane matching description being operated at location matching description. LE visually observes “who” and they now have link from act to individual. Well on the way to establishing probable cause (if they even need to meet that standard), but enough to detain and investigate. Remember, 349 requires you to give LE a lot of info “on request.” Get mouthy or say “you don’t have a right to stop me” and you just handed them probable cause in the form of violating 349.

(2b) If they don’t see it operating but arrive to observe you loading into the car, they’ve linked act to owner. Not quite probable cause, buy again they can stop and ask you for info under 349. As above, get mouthy and you just handed them the stick to beat you with (metaphorically of course). On the other hand, now you have a dilemma. Either lie (exposure to interfering with police charge) or admit it was you (recommendation), or throw someone else under the bus. The problem with latter is that if you’re not truthful, you’ve lied and again exposed to other charges.

(3) If LE shows up and didn’t see you flying or loading, they can still ask questions under 349. Anyone who’s untruthful exposes themselves to the charge above. And EVERYONE’s stories better be the same, or they’ll find out and more charges. Or maybe, just maybe, someone with a lot more to lose by lying than you decides it’s not worth the risk and throws you under the bus? Better hope you haven’t already given “your story” or oops - right back at interfering with police.

(4) Say LE shows up and you’re gone. Congrats. You got away with it ... this time. But if you did it once, you’ll do it again, and they’ll eventually catch you.

All those big pretty brightly colored planes with distinctive paint schemes might not be the smartest. But time will tell.

Risk is all yours. If you break the law and draw attention, just be aware the LE has lots of tools to make your life crummy.
Sep 12, 2019, 05:19 AM
Registered User
1) commit some egregious act that garners public notice or otherwise do something to bring attention to yourself.

This is the one that concerns me the most. It is on the 24/7 news because someone died.
Sep 12, 2019, 08:37 AM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray93J
1) commit some egregious act that garners public notice or otherwise do something to bring attention to yourself.

This is the one that concerns me the most. It is on the 24/7 news because someone died.

Agree. I think folks underestimate the ability of police to ask questions under 349 in the wake of something, and then act on what they learn from that point forward. And that doesn’t even cover the range of things police can do if you’re less than cooperative.
Sep 12, 2019, 08:53 AM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
Pretty far fetched there Frankie, I do find it ironic that you bring up the subject of being truthful.
Sep 12, 2019, 11:40 AM
Registered User
GeoffS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
This conversation is hilarious. Does anyone truly think the FAA is going to be sending out enforcement squads to model airplane fields? Really? ...
Actually, I could see an FAA person showing up at a large/organized R/C flying event.

Not so much to hand out enforcement actions, but more in an educational and outreach role.

Contrary to popular belief FAA inspectors don't write enforcement actions for every infraction.
A lot of the time if they believe you didn't knowingly/intentionally break a rule, that you understand the issue, and are sincere about not breaking it in the future the matter will end there.


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