View Poll Results: Would obeying a 400' limit reduce your enjoyment of hobby?
Yes or probably 72 61.02%
No or probably not 37 31.36%
I don't have a good enough sense of what 400' high looks to say yes or no 9 7.63%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Sep 02, 2019, 07:12 PM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
xanuser's Avatar
to each their own.
I prefer the ground rush and challenge of flying as low as possible. :shrugs:

I do strongly believe (advocate ) there should be a wifi warning app that announces any low flying craft in proximity thru a simple phone app that anyone could install.
Last edited by xanuser; Sep 02, 2019 at 07:35 PM.
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Sep 02, 2019, 07:26 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
How many know how they are flying
This may not be a problem for most

If put a altimeter it use by FAA can use it for fine.

First thing see what 400 feet look like from all angles.
See my post number 25

Dave
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...122-meters-%29
Sep 02, 2019, 07:28 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStrowe
As I've said to others, if one doesn't like what the .gov is doing, often one should look in the mirror to see the reason.
I don't have that much influence.


Anyway, your claims boil down to "If you don't do what the government wants voluntarily, it's proper for the government to force you to do what it wants." That's not freedom at all; that's pretending the bars of the cage aren't there but respecting them nevertheless. To have freedom, you have to be able to do things the government might not want and not be penalized for it.

"When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it. If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." -- some tyrant.
Sep 02, 2019, 10:23 PM
Modeling Retread
Probably not, I like to fly close in and low. I hate to crane my neck. I like to do aerobatics full scale aircraft can do close in.
Sep 03, 2019, 12:23 AM
Registered User
aeronaut999's Avatar
Thread OP

The original purpose of this thread...


The original purpose of this thread was not to advocate violating the new rules. I just wanted to see what people thought about the new rules. Especially seeing as I think the related poll here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...122-meters-%29 had so many choices that some people might not have realized multiple answers were allowed and therefore might not have gotten around to selecting either one of the last two answers, and therefore might have given a false result over which of the last two answers matches how most folks feel. Note that as of right now only 68% of people who answered that poll selected EITHER ONE of the last two answers, "Fly under 400 foot will limit my flying" and "Flying under 400 foot will no(t) interfere with my flying". Also note that as of right now both of those answers has had the same number of people vote for it -- only 13.
Sep 03, 2019, 01:20 AM
Registered User
aeronaut999's Avatar
Thread OP

More FUN than looking at real estate signs!


Re "How to tell 400 foot looks like flying and if would limit FUN": well, taking this photo was FUN. (See attachment.) Before the new changes in regs of course. Total straight-line distance to model about 2500' based on relative size of model and moon. Altitude was much lower of course-- the moon was not high in the sky when the photo was taken-- but it is definitely a good thing that the photo was taken back in the days when flying above 400' was still allowed. See related post https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...5&postcount=23 in related thread https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...2#post42658685 for more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
How to tell 400 foot looks like flying.

Using Odometer 528 feet is point one ...
Using Google Map turn on under settings > Show scale on map > Always on
See photo below

1) Now you can see how far on your block 400 feet
2) Next look for real estate sign most cross arm are 47 inch almost 4 feet (1. X meters). The cross arm is about size of most model airplanes
(From internet onsign
Post - 4 x 4 High Grade Vinyl Post
Arm - Choose from 36" or 47" based on your sign size
Real Estate Post stake)


Now you look down the street and see what your model will at 400 feet and if the 400 foot limit your fun.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...122-meters-%29

Dave
Last edited by aeronaut999; Sep 03, 2019 at 07:38 PM.
Sep 03, 2019, 12:47 PM
Modeling Retread
Interesting for an approximation...

Assuming your eye could be calibrated independent of reference this would only work if the airplane was directly overhead. If your plane is out at a 45° angle directly in front of you, it would only be at 283 ft. (I did 45° because the math is simple and doesn't require trig.)

The problem though is that the eye system is a marvelous organic computer. Ever notice how the pictures you take, don't match what you saw? How hard it is to get a good picture of a flying airplane? Your eyes are effectively telephoto based on how the data is processed, i.e. what you're paying attention to.

For training purposes, what would be better would be a reference airplane that can report it's altitude. Have it fly a regular pattern around the field, so you have the plane fairly close up and reasonably far away. You can then mentally compare your model to the reference and get a closer idea of how high you are flying. (I remember, at a giant scale event, seeing to ¼ Scale Cubs heading toward each other, looking the same size. Yep, there was a mid-air.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
How to tell 400 foot looks like flying.

Using Odometer 528 feet is point one
Using Google Map turn on under settings > Show scale on map > Always on
See photo below

1) Now you can see how far on your block 400 feet
2) Next look for real estate sign most cross arm are 47 inch almost 4 feet (1. X meters). The cross arm is about size of most model airplanes
(From internet onsign
Post - 4 x 4 High Grade Vinyl Post
Arm - Choose from 36" or 47" based on your sign size
Real Estate Post stake)


Now you look down the street and see what your model will at 400 feet and if the 400 foot limit your fun.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...122-meters-%29

Dave
Sep 03, 2019, 01:31 PM
Registered User
320pilot's Avatar
Buy a RAM 3 data logger. Then you will know how high you flew. After you land and download data. You can also see your max rate-of-climb in thermals, duration of flight, etc.

Data from a flight with my Pulsar 3.2 thermal duration sailplane. 7 years ago, before new regs went into effect, flying in Class G airspace.

Of course, a 400' limit will "reduce my enjoyment of the hobby". Like Moeregaard, and David2011 , all my sailplanes will be effectively grounded.
Last edited by 320pilot; Sep 03, 2019 at 01:57 PM.
Sep 03, 2019, 01:39 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
When I am curious about altitude I use the telemetry in my radio to do so. It records max altitude while displaying current altitude.
Sep 03, 2019, 01:42 PM
Registered User
320pilot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fv38wheels
I recently emailed our district VP about this. His reply was, don’t worry about it, it’s “business as usual”. And a commercial pilot could fly over 400’ with “nothing to fear” from the FAA.
Well ask him if the AMA will provide "Pro-bono" legal representation if the FAA drag you into court, or go to pull your Airmans Certificate.
Last edited by 320pilot; Sep 03, 2019 at 01:56 PM.
Sep 03, 2019, 01:52 PM
Registered User
320pilot's Avatar
Like, fv38wheels; I recently received a similar email reply from the AMA ; Dated Aug 20th, 2019
Quote:
Hi Mr. XXXXX,



I am happy to address some of your concerns. We understand that the FAA has issued an Advisory Circular stating that flights in Class G airspace should remain below 400’. That being said, the FAA has assured us that we can continue operating as we have until final regulations are in place and some type of waiver process is granted for flights over 400’.



We have been working with the FAA on a 400’ waiver process for Class G airspace and hope to have it finalized soon.



Have a great day!



Hannah Giese | Government Affairs Representative
Academy of Model Aeronautics
Sep 03, 2019, 02:12 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Just like AMA worked with Congress to "Save" 336.
Just like AMA worked with the FAA to allow AMA numbers for registration.
Just like AMA has worked with the FAA to preserve model aviation since 2012 and before.

Pardon my pessimism but the AMA has a poor track record when it comes to actually obtaining positive results from their work with the FAA.

Oh, except for the big win of FPV being allowed if you use a spotter. Yay!!!
Sep 03, 2019, 02:53 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
I don't have that much influence.


Anyway, your claims boil down to "If you don't do what the government wants voluntarily, it's proper for the government to force you to do what it wants." That's not freedom at all; that's pretending the bars of the cage aren't there but respecting them nevertheless. To have freedom, you have to be able to do things the government might not want and not be penalized for it.

"When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it. If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." -- some tyrant.
That says it all.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2 make 4 is that is granted, all else follows." George Orwell/1984
As Thomas Jefferson stated, the Constitution was created to put chains on the government. Unfortunately the Government no longer has those chains upon it as it has thrown the Constitution into the trash bin.
The United States no longer has a Constitution.
Sep 03, 2019, 05:34 PM
Registered User
aeronaut999's Avatar
Thread OP
( - never mind, not important - )
Last edited by aeronaut999; Sep 03, 2019 at 07:15 PM.
Sep 03, 2019, 09:44 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
The second amendment did not list RC model flying.
Only Flint Locks Rifles or may be AK-47.

Dave
Read the 9th Amendment.


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