View Poll Results: Will 400 foot limit will be a problem
I do not know how high 2 2.50%
I think I gone over from time to time 13 16.25%
I know I fly over 400 feet by some type of altitude instrument 15 18.75%
I work in industry that on day to day know what 400 foot looks like 1 1.25%
I have no idea what 400 foot looks like 5 6.25%
I just do not care 9 11.25%
Fly under 400 foot will limit my flying 32 40.00%
Flying under 400 foot will no interfere with my flying 22 27.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Sep 03, 2019, 12:23 PM
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smithdoor's Avatar
Thread OP
Odd are may be able to to fly over near tall radio towers some will go over 2,000 feet. No full size air will fly close to towers there are guy wires pilots can see the guy wires.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States

Dave
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Sep 03, 2019, 06:27 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H.
I believe that for many contestants, the idea is to WIN, thus planes tend to become as large as possible.

If everyone flies a smaller plane, it’s possible to have a level playing field and thus preserve competition while simultaneously staying below 400 feet.

The math is the math. A 32 inch wingspan at 400 appears to the eye the same as an 80 inch wingspan plane at 1000 feet.
Sep 03, 2019, 07:35 PM
Registered User
elan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
I do know what the FAA is looking at is keeping all aviation's safe.
-It seems to me commercial interests have plowed tons of money into the regulation of r/c hobby airspace so that hobbyists will get out of the way so commercial drone operations can make money. If the FAA actions were risked-based, hobby r/c would have been left alone. Our hobby has an 83 year record of excellent safety...
Sep 03, 2019, 11:12 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan
-It seems to me commercial interests have plowed tons of money into the regulation of r/c hobby airspace so that hobbyists will get out of the way so commercial drone operations can make money. If the FAA actions were risked-based, hobby r/c would have been left alone. Our hobby has an 83 year record of excellent safety...

In addition to the safety role, the FAA also has the task of managing and balancing the airspace needs of all stakeholders.
Sep 04, 2019, 06:15 PM
Registered User
elan's Avatar
This forum is for organization, education and advocacy efforts to inform communities and lawmakers about the wonders and benefits of radio control model aircraft.
Sep 04, 2019, 07:15 PM
Registered User
aeronaut999's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan
This forum is for organization, education and advocacy efforts to inform communities and lawmakers about the wonders and benefits of radio control model aircraft.
My 0.2-meter Radian motorglider truly had a wondrous flight today. Up near the 250.0 foot level after a motor run to 40.0 feet or so. Lots of circling with Mississippi Kites which is a little hawk we have around here with an approximately 0.08- meter wingspan. Highly beneficial-- to someone's state of mind.
Last edited by aeronaut999; Sep 04, 2019 at 09:01 PM.
Sep 04, 2019, 08:29 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
If everyone flies a smaller plane, it’s possible to have a level playing field and thus preserve competition while simultaneously staying below 400 feet.

The math is the math. A 32 inch wingspan at 400 appears to the eye the same as an 80 inch wingspan plane at 1000 feet.
Heck, why not just stand around on the ground with
stick planes and pretend to fly while making propeller noises?
Franklin, you truly have no clue.
Sep 04, 2019, 08:45 PM
Registered User
320pilot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan
This forum is for organization, education and advocacy efforts to inform communities and lawmakers about the wonders and benefits of radio control model aircraft.
I just wonder if the Forum Managers, (?) at RC Groups, keep pushing all questions about this new 400 foot limit over to this "Model Aircraft & Drone Advocacy " Forum. Which is like a "file 13 " which few people read.

I don't see any questions, or query's on the 400' limit on any of the Sailplane threads. Well, duhh? This won't affect sailplanes?

So I finally realized all the same people (myself included) are on these various threads, under the banner Model Aircraft & Drone Advocacy. In other words we are just firing questions back and forth to each other, but getting nowhere. Blaming the AMA, or not, blaming the FAA or not . Blaming Airline Pilots ???. Well I had to respond to that one .

Here is the Law now recorded in the Federal Registry. Not speculation.
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...anned-aircraft.
Quote:
Recreational flyers must adhere to all of the statutory conditions to operate under the Exception for Limited Recreational Operation of Unmanned Aircraft. Otherwise, the recreational operations must be conducted under 14 CFR part 107.
Among the eight "statutory conditions" to be met for Recreational UAS flight,

Quote:
6. In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground level and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.
Class G airspace is uncontrolled airspace in which the FAA does not provide air traffic services.

You may operate recreational unmanned aircraft in this airspace up to an altitude of 400 feet above ground level (AGL).
As I have almost exclusively, flown only in Class G airspace, all my sailplanes , hotliners are grounded now.
Goodbye fellow flyers on this forum. I am tired of hitting my head against a brick wall.
Last edited by 320pilot; Sep 04, 2019 at 08:54 PM.
Sep 04, 2019, 09:48 PM
Registered User
(b) Other Operations.-Unmanned aircraft operations that do not conform to the limitations in subsection (a) must comply with all statutes and regulations generally applicable to unmanned aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...edition=prelim
Last edited by boombang; Sep 04, 2019 at 09:59 PM.
Sep 04, 2019, 09:51 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaflyer
Heck, why not just stand around on the ground with
stick planes and pretend to fly while making propeller noises?
Franklin, you truly have no clue.
Agree, competition does NOT go backwards. His comments clearly demonstrate just how out of touch he really is with the hobby.
Sep 04, 2019, 10:13 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaflyer
Heck, why not just stand around on the ground with

stick planes and pretend to fly while making propeller noises?

Franklin, you truly have no clue.

The rules have changed. Actually, to be precise, the law has changed. Some may not be able to do “as they’ve always done” under the changed law. That is the reality. I merely propose a way to still compete within the worst case implementation of those laws.

Now, if you think the AMA can change those laws, so be it. But despite telling us how much “influence” they had, they were not able to stop registration, unable to preserve 336, and unable to prevent 349.

And, in case you haven’t looked, you might want to read the minutes from the last EC meeting. The August one.

AMA’s focus appears to be trying to figure out how to survive financially and preserve “Taj-Muncie” than anything else legislatively. We’ll see whether they can walk AND chew gum.

But hey, look at the bright side. In an email yesterday, they bragged about the 75 clubs that celebrated “National Model Aviation Day” or whatever they called it. Seventy-five our of what, 2000? And how much did they spend on developing and producing marketing materials etc.? For 75 clubs. Well done!
Sep 04, 2019, 10:14 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by exf3bguy
Agree, competition does NOT go backwards. His comments clearly demonstrate just how out of touch he really is with the hobby.

Please explain how larger is progress? Seems to me, at least from the physics and aerodynamics standpoint - smaller would be more challenging. But darn that science thing.
Sep 04, 2019, 10:38 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
Please explain how larger is progress? Seems to me, at least from the physics and aerodynamics standpoint - smaller would be more challenging. But darn that science thing.
Moot point. The FAI is the organization that determines the format of most competitive flying. A good example is the pattern sequences. In the upper classes ( AMA advanced, masters and F3A classes ) the sequences are quite difficult and anything smaller then 2 meters would be at a serious disadvantage. It has to do with wing loading and RE, that darned science thing. It would make no sense to try and compete on the world stage with such a disadvantage. I agree that at your skill set that may be a bit difficult for you to understand.

Again moot point as the events that we currently have will be left alone. There are numerous countries that have altitude limits that had teams at the last Pattern WC. You keep preaching about 400' being law, what did the FAA reply when you asked them about a couple specific events you were pretending to attend? Why did the events proceed without FAA interference even after you snitched on them? Why did the soaring NATs take place without FAA interference? LSF applied for a waiver and my sources ( a few guys that participated in the event ) were told they did not require a waiver. How would you explain these events that FAA was well aware of yet had ZERO presence?
Sep 04, 2019, 11:07 PM
Registered User
All this is coming from a dude that up until a few days ago didn't know what a JR Module was. You go Frank.
Sep 04, 2019, 11:11 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
But...but flying smaller models would solve all our problems.


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