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Aug 19, 2019, 09:43 AM
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I don't care about full sized pilot collisions. If your flying where I fly you deserve to crash.
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Aug 19, 2019, 11:22 AM
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Captain Dunsel's Avatar
Quote:
I don't care about full sized pilot collisions. If your flying where I fly you deserve to crash.
Maybe where you're flying is where he needs to go because his engine is out, etc.

CD
Aug 19, 2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto Rob
I don't care about full sized pilot collisions. If your flying where I fly you deserve to crash.

Full scale always has right of way, that is nothing new.
Aug 19, 2019, 06:34 PM
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smithdoor's Avatar
The balloon has right away over everything. The RC models is at bottom of list. The list has been around since the 1950's.
There are rules for free flight with FAA.

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by makoman1860
Full scale always has right of way, that is nothing new.
Aug 19, 2019, 08:00 PM
Registered User
Quote:
I don't care about full sized pilot collisions. If your flying where I fly you deserve to crash.
^this attitude^ is the very reason for the current r/c regulations
some dudes think that their unmanned toys are equal with full scale occupied by human/s
Aug 19, 2019, 08:10 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto Rob
I don't care about full sized pilot collisions. If your flying where I fly you deserve to crash.
Boombang is correct, your attitude is an example of why the FAA and Congress felt the need to clamp down on our hobby. Thanks

RStrowe
Aug 19, 2019, 08:15 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
No, that's the law, the one you're always banging on about.

Model aircraft are not restricted or prohibited from operating within the boundaries of MTRs or MOAs.
No one said you couldnít fly into an MOA or MTR. I do believe that Franklinís suggested question was whether it was safe to do so, a very different thing.

RStrowe
Aug 19, 2019, 08:40 PM
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GeoffS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStrowe
No one said you couldn’t fly into an MOA or MTR. I do believe that Franklin’s suggested question was whether it was safe to do so, a very different thing.
This is a good example of why basic airspace knowledge is important in this day-and-age.

I've attached the table of MOA information from the Green Bay sectional chart.
All the MOAs, except for Snoopy East, have floors above 500' AGL (some of them substantially higher...).

MTRs are another case altogether. They change (as often as every 56 days) and the sectional charts do not show widths or altitudes.
Flight Service is the only way to be sure what the details are at any given time.
Aug 20, 2019, 02:34 PM
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GSXR1000's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by atreis
I was hiking at a park that went under an MTR once. Peace and quiet one minute, screaming jets at very low altitude the next, then peace and quiet. It was actually really cool. (I was just hiking, not flying.) However, while the odds of something in the air being at just the wrong spot are very low, if it was there's nothing anyone would be able to do about it. The amount of advance warning is on the order of a second or two. MTRs aren't all that common and are relatively narrow, so it's best to just not go there.
I had that happen, I was in a area along the Oklahoma and Arkansas border in the countryside a long time ago in the 90's and it was very nice peaceful and quite and before I knew it, a low flying B1 came out of now where and it was a site to behold to see it so low to the ground and flying away, I've been to many airshows, but seeing that B1 do a low level terrain map training flight was awesome since the B-1B mission is not to fly fast and supersonic like the original B1 but to fly low below radar and follow the terrain and deliver their bombs or launch cruise missiles....
Last edited by GSXR1000; Aug 20, 2019 at 02:50 PM.
Aug 21, 2019, 10:53 AM
Registered User

The FCC gets it right...why not the FAA?


My complaint about the test is that it is a one size fits all approach. The FCC allows usage of licensed devices by retailers without a test. For instance, like a wireless router. Retailers like DJI could build in "undefeatable" geofencing and remote ID, or whatever features the FAA deemed necessary and sell these off the shelf without any testing or registration required.

The FCC also allows unlicensed usage of the citizens band and family radio service. Both of these are limited in nature. For more privileges, an amateur license is required with 3 different levels - technician, general, and extra.

Then of course there are all of the commercial interests and regulation involved there.

I could get on board with regulation from the FAA with a similar setup. Passing an aeronautical test in order to fly a HobbyZone champ in my backyard seems a little silly.
Aug 21, 2019, 11:13 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmanuel
My complaint about the test is that it is a one size fits all approach. The FCC allows usage of licensed devices by retailers without a test. For instance, like a wireless router. Retailers like DJI could build in "undefeatable" geofencing and remote ID, or whatever features the FAA deemed necessary and sell these off the shelf without any testing or registration required.

The FCC also allows unlicensed usage of the citizens band and family radio service. Both of these are limited in nature. For more privileges, an amateur license is required with 3 different levels - technician, general, and extra.

Then of course there are all of the commercial interests and regulation involved there.

I could get on board with regulation from the FAA with a similar setup. Passing an aeronautical test in order to fly a HobbyZone champ in my backyard seems a little silly.
Maybe so but we're dealing with government bureaucrats whose mission in life is to run everybody else's life. Unfortunately, there are those who fully support the idea of having someone in an office inside Washington decide for the rest of us. There are those who worship authority and the power it brings them. They have no problem with the government involving itself in our own lives.
Aug 21, 2019, 12:42 PM
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The PIPE's Avatar

I agree with you...in more than one "aspect" of all this!


Dear dsmanuel:

The PIPE Here...as I'm going to be returning to RC flight later this year or very early in 2020, nowadays with ALL this regulation being "legislated into" the ordinary RC hobby, these sorts of "new hoops to jump through" ARE things most of us long-timers in RC (for yours truly, off-and-on since 1977) have never had to face before.

As I've had a Ham license since 1978 (as KA1ABG the entire time, from 1978-2004 as a "novice-to-Tech class" Ham in the late 1970s, then a "paper upgrade" in April 2004 to General class) I can readily agree with you about the FCC apparently doin' things for us Hams, in a much more readily "understandable" manner.

You seem to have some appropriate criticisms regarding...by comparison, the FCC's "more rational" approach to things, versus the "potentially stoneheaded" ways (my description, that's all) of the FAA in regards to how they've behaved and "legislated" so far, to so much of what comprises (and HAS comprised) the aeromodeling hobby...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmanuel
My complaint about the test is that it is a one size fits all approach. The FCC allows usage of licensed devices by retailers without a test. For instance, like a wireless router...The FCC also allows unlicensed usage of the citizens band and family radio service. Both of these are limited in nature. For more privileges, an amateur license is required with 3 different levels - technician, general, and extra.

Then of course there are all of the commercial interests and regulation involved there.

I could get on board with regulation from the FAA with a similar setup. Passing an aeronautical test in order to fly a HobbyZone champ in my backyard seems a little silly.
My own criticisms of the FCC vs. FAA comprise such things as how any TESTS each agency requires, towards access to a desired goal; are structured and administered. It's also concerned with such things as a name-change, which I'll be going through during next month (September 2019) to return my family name to that of my birthfather, who passed in 1993, and permanently drop the family name of my first stepfather; who was abusive to me in multiple ways into my initial teenage years, at the start of the 1970s.

Firstly, the FCC's constant adherence to a "multiple-choice" exam format with Ham license written exams, makes studying for one a BIT easier than a "short essay answer" exam for each and every question; which seems to be what the FAA might just be thinking of for an "FAA aeromodeler's license" exam format (correct me if I'm wrong about that last "guess"...and I'm certainly hoping that I am!)

Secondly, when I checked with the FCC on getting my name changed on my Ham license, it's just FCC Form 605 that's needed for filing to achieve it (at NO cost whatsoever, if done online)...but when it comes to even getting the $5.00-for-three-years FAA registration number and certificate, the "apparently-stoneheaded FAA" does NOT allow such a name change, which prompted me to "get going" with the name-change earlier this year, which appears like it will be "wrapped up" by the end of September 2019 which will, when completed, allow me to apply for the FAA's registration with the changed name.

I can easily understand that differing Federal agencies "might" have to do things a bit differently, and that's to be expected...but the FAA's refusal to even recognize the differing natures of recreational aeromodelers versus commercial "drone drivers" is just the "tip-of-the-hippo" (when one's submerged in a pond) to HOW "apparently stoneheaded" the FAA has made themselves appear to be, from their assertions, treatment, and "attempts to regulate" in the eyes of at least a few of us in the recreational aeromodeling community.

Thanks and Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE....!!
Last edited by The PIPE; Aug 21, 2019 at 12:48 PM.
Aug 21, 2019, 02:14 PM
Registered User
First it was a simple registration. Now it's testing. What's next?
You see it's not just about the FAA and it's idiotic approach, (read shotgun) but the fact that the government is once again attempting to micro manage everyone. It's not just those of us in this hobby, by all metrics they (the state) has every intention of complete control over everything we say, and do.
They have to take this route. It is the only logical course for statists. The state must become the master because it's what all states eventually become.
The FAA will not stop at just registration and testing. You can bet on it. Like every other bureaucratic division of the state, they will regulate the hobby out of existence.
But no one cares....as long as we're kept safe from ourselves. And there are some on this thread who obviously worship the state and its power over the rest of us.
Aug 21, 2019, 02:32 PM
Registered User
Quote:
the state and its power over the rest of us
some r/c dudes mentality is that they could do anything anywhere whatever they think is good for them but in society there are rules, the hobby ain't getting killed by proper r/c regulation, only the weak will drop out & that's normal
Aug 21, 2019, 03:09 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyroger
First it was a simple registration. Now it's testing. What's next?
Everything changed last October when the new FAA reauthorization bill was signed. It repealed Section 336 and set the FAA free to regulate as they see fit. But that law laid out 8 items, that if they are followed, exempt you from following Part 107 rules. Testing was one of those eight conditions.

But everything that is going on now is at the direction of Congress and the law they wrote (349/44809).


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