View Poll Results: Did the AMA blow it?
Yes. The AMA is to blame for our current legal mess. 32 50.00%
Nope. We would be here, or on our way here, regardless of any legal distinction AMA could have tried to make. 32 50.00%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Aug 16, 2019, 09:26 PM
Registered User
320pilot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCX2020
Dave, the issue with the 400' limit is that it will eliminate half of the R/C model competition in the US and will remove US teams in those events from entering world championships. That would have a huge ripple effect that will harm the hobby as a whole here in the US. It will also make several millions of dollars worth of models obsolete. It alarms me that anyone who truly has the best interest in the hobby would be OK with this.
I own a number (well 6 or more !) E-sailplanes that I regularly flew in Class G airspace, in a field 4 minutes from my home. Always above 400'. Located in a deep valley, somewhere in Northern Vermont.
Pulsar 2.0, and Pulsar 3.2 Also a Xplorer3.8. E-Typhoon , Flash 2 hotliner. Nan Spider.
So this is not an AMA field. I can't get a waiver to fly above 400' at this farmers field, if it is Class G airspace, when I have to wait for the right conditions to fly. The nearest AMA field is a 1.5 hour drive away, and not really glider friendly, as it is too close to a major airport.



My thousands of dollars tied up in these model sailplanes is worthless, if I can't fly above 400'
And I have a Commercial Multi-IFR Certificate, so I don't want enforcement action either.

Basically I feel screwed, and I am surprised, that over on the sailplane forums, no one seems to care about this issue. Maybe they are all going to sanctioned meets, where the organizers have already obtained an FAA waiver to fly above 400' ?
But for someone who doesn't drive hundreds of miles to meets, and just wants to fly in a peaceful farmers field , the 400' rule will kill this sport.

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...anned-aircraft
Last edited by 320pilot; Aug 16, 2019 at 09:35 PM.
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Aug 16, 2019, 10:38 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
320, you are a great example of what I am talking about. I am certain there are hundreds of guys in your situation. I however do not see any reason why you can't apply for a waiver. IMO it would be worth a try.

I currently have Supra Pro Competition with a TD fuselage and a F5J fuselage and a Pike Giant that I bring out on windy days. Those are actually my smaller investment. I not only fly Pattern as well but I have developed my own airplane design that I have hundreds of hours of fabrication time invested in the tooling. I am just now starting to ship kits. There are a great many guys that have big money on the line here.
Aug 16, 2019, 11:09 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
Are you sure your model is over 400 feet.
It may be a optical allusions or glass off.
Odds are you flying under 400 feet and just looks far away .

It hard judge that altatude 😭
If put a altimeter it would be too must weight for the sailplane and the cost too. ☺️😭

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by 320pilot
I own a number (well 6 or more !) E-sailplanes that I regularly flew in Class G airspace, in a field 4 minutes from my home. Always above 400'. Located in a deep valley, somewhere in Northern Vermont.
Pulsar 2.0, and Pulsar 3.2 Also a Xplorer3.8. E-Typhoon , Flash 2 hotliner. Nan Spider.
So this is not an AMA field. I can't get a waiver to fly above 400' at this farmers field, if it is Class G airspace, when I have to wait for the right conditions to fly. The nearest AMA field is a 1.5 hour drive away, and not really glider friendly, as it is too close to a major airport.



My thousands of dollars tied up in these model sailplanes is worthless, if I can't fly above 400'
And I have a Commercial Multi-IFR Certificate, so I don't want enforcement action either.

Basically I feel screwed, and I am surprised, that over on the sailplane forums, no one seems to care about this issue. Maybe they are all going to sanctioned meets, where the organizers have already obtained an FAA waiver to fly above 400' ?
But for someone who doesn't drive hundreds of miles to meets, and just wants to fly in a peaceful farmers field , the 400' rule will kill this sport.

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...anned-aircraft
Aug 16, 2019, 11:23 PM
Registered User
exf3bguy's Avatar
Dave, at lest on my sailplanes I know for a fact I am higher then 400'. I have my E sailplane equipped with a CAM module. I am able to have that module set to shut down the motor at 100, 150 and 200 meters altitude. It's usually set for 150 meters. That is 450' starting altitude and I will usually gain altitude from there. Winch launch gets me up just as high. My pattern sequence has a couple of maneuvers that get that model above 800'. Although that airplane does not stay that high for very long.
Aug 16, 2019, 11:37 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCX2020
Dave, at lest on my sailplanes I know for a fact I am higher then 400'. I have my E sailplane equipped with a CAM module. I am able to have that module set to shut down the motor at 100, 150 and 200 meters altitude. It's usually set for 150 meters. That is 450' starting altitude and I will usually gain altitude from there. Winch launch gets me up just as high. My pattern sequence has a couple of maneuvers that get that model above 800'. Although that airplane does not stay that high for very long.
That is to bad on the CAD module
Tech will give away your altitude other wise it your best guess and how good your very old eyes are for altitude.

Dave
Aug 17, 2019, 08:11 AM
Registered User
320pilot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
Are you sure your model is over 400 feet.
It may be a optical allusions or glass off.
Odds are you flying under 400 feet and just looks far away .

It hard judge that altatude 😭
If put a altimeter it would be too must weight for the sailplane and the cost too. ☺️😭

Dave
Dave,
look at this . RAM 3 data. Trust me, I was higher than 400' on this day a few years ago. Note, motor run is only for the first 10 seconds or so, then I catch thermals. I don't actually know how high the sailplane was, until I land and download the RAM 3 data.
Pulsar 3.2
Last edited by 320pilot; Aug 17, 2019 at 08:19 AM.
Aug 17, 2019, 10:19 AM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
It is nice to how high your glider is flying.

The technology is great to show how high the glider flying.
The downside is the FAA will know from your own tech. This is like you park your car and the CHP comes overcheck the tech in your car and give you a ticket for error you did wild driving.

It would had for the FAA to prove your over 400 feet. I balsa model does not reflect radar waves.

Dave



Quote:
Originally Posted by 320pilot
Dave,
look at this . RAM 3 data. Trust me, I was higher than 400' on this day a few years ago. Note, motor run is only for the first 10 seconds or so, then I catch thermals. I don't actually know how high the sailplane was, until I land and download the RAM 3 data.
Pulsar 3.2
Aug 17, 2019, 11:10 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
It is nice to how high your glider is flying.

It would had for the FAA to prove your over 400 feet. I balsa model does not reflect radar waves.

Dave
But If you get a "ticket" it would be on you to prove you was under 400 feet and on you to pay lawyers, court cost etc.
Aug 17, 2019, 08:48 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by 320pilot
So this is not an AMA field. I can't get a waiver to fly above 400' at this farmers field, if it is Class G airspace, when I have to wait for the right conditions to fly.
Currently, the only way to get a waiver to fly above 400' is to obtain a part 107 certificate, register each of your aircraft individually under part 107, and apply for a waiver. The waiver does not have to be for a specific date; in fact, most appear to be from date of grant to August 31, 2023. They claim 90 days to a go/no go decision. The process looks like about as much fun as drilling out your own cavity without anaesthesia, and is clearly designed to be impractical for anyone who isn't experienced in the industry and familiar with the ins and outs of FAA paperwork. But you're a real pilot, maybe you can do it. Let us know if you do.


Quote:
And I have a Commercial Multi-IFR Certificate, so I don't want enforcement action either.
Sorry. Once you have a license they own you. They can use the threat of pulling it to make you dance. That's what the license is for.

Quote:
But for someone who doesn't drive hundreds of miles to meets, and just wants to fly in a peaceful farmers field , the 400' rule will kill this sport.
Most are just going to ignore it. If you don't have a license, the worst they're likely to do is fine you.
Aug 17, 2019, 09:14 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by longone
But If you get a "ticket" it would be on you to prove you was under 400 feet and on you to pay lawyers, court cost etc.
I plan never go there and keep under 400 feet.

But if did get that paper Federal Government the Sheriff would bring to his or her work place so you call your wife.
Your wife would neatly put all your models in over night bag for your new place.

Dave
Aug 22, 2019, 05:08 PM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
xanuser's Avatar
Thread OP
interesting poll results.
I was certain given the astronomical amount of times I've read (in nearly every advocacy thread) that it is "the AMA's fault!" the poll would reflect those large post counts POV.

----------

so now that we are here? how do we move forward?
or do we just continue to look longingly in the rearview mirror and keep pointing fingers, hoping someday someone actually invents a hot tub time machine?

Aug 22, 2019, 06:04 PM
Registered User
smithdoor's Avatar
I can not blame the AMA. . The AMA are not the NRA how will pay off Politician . We will never know if NRA did not though the RC world under the bus . As simple as "look the RC planes there bigger that guns"

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanuser
interesting poll results.
I was certain given the astronomical amount of times I've read (in nearly every advocacy thread) that it is "the AMA's fault!" the poll would reflect those large post counts POV.

----------

so now that we are here? how do we move forward?
or do we just continue to look longingly in the rearview mirror and keep pointing fingers, hoping someday someone actually invents a hot tub time machine?

Last edited by smithdoor; Aug 22, 2019 at 06:17 PM.


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