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Aug 10, 2019, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanYeung
Special thanks to @suckerpunch and fearlessflight and thanks everyone’s input. Tonight’s nose in practice got much better.

Yesterday’s flight sim time and the ticks paid off and tonight I was already going for nose in skinny nose forward figure 8s (nose in at each end) on S2 IU2 (agility mode)...!

nCPS was still in stability mode doing nose in figure 8. But that’s expected. (2 tries on IU1 result in total lost orientation and crashes, both time swashplate bearing pop out).

I will continue the practice and hopefully have some better shoots for everyone. Thanks!


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Great news! Keep at it you’re well on your way.
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Aug 10, 2019, 09:45 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suckerpunch
The:
There really is no need to nose hover
and your claim of the sticks work the same nose in and tail in
Lol! I couldn't let that one pass
Can you please explain why?
Sure, Nose in hovers by people having difficulty doing it often ends in a broken helicopter. Crash damage is often the reason I see people giving up on helicopters. As I mentioned flying around, doing things like figure 8's or even flying back and forth with rudder turns at the end, will get a little nose in time. While often being easier to keep control. Yes, advanced flight benefits from mastering nose in. However taking a little time until you feel more comfortable nose in often prevents many crashes.
If you think of the sticks working different it often slows down your thinking and progress to more advanced flight. I think to orientation as if I was sitting in the pilots seat. Right aileron rolls to the helicopters right side, whether nose in or nose out, upright or inverted.
Aug 10, 2019, 10:28 PM
Registered User
Suckerpunch's Avatar
I see...
I agree with your opinion about taking time to feel comfortable with nose in,and the crashes it can cause while learning.I suppose that's why companies have presented us with "Simulators"??, of course there is no "Real" chance of crashing your helicopter than and you can take all the time you need to proficiently learn nose in.I've always thought "Scale Flying" wasn't considered advanced flights(no inverted hovers,no backward flights,no loops),so would hovering nose in while scale flying be considered advanced? from your quote:
"advanced flight benefits from mastering nose in"
I think ,thinking as if your in the pilot seat while nose in is going to take just as long (if not,longer)to learn nose in as compared to thinking the sticks work differently while nose in.
As you stated:
Right aileron rolls the heli to the right side,but if your nose in it's going to roll the other way and your brain is expecting for it to go physically to your right side,again i guess that's when a simulator is going to be a valuable tool.
Aug 11, 2019, 01:59 AM
Registered User
Thread OP

Tail in control confused when practicing nose in...


@RotoRob: thanks for your sharing. I think I got what you mean and the reasons behind. Pilot inside the heli should have no orientation issue since to him the control is the same no matter the heli’s orientation. And sure crashes would affect one’s passion to flying heli.

It need some time to “project oneself into the cockpit of the heli”; more practice needed to master it. I do respect and value your advice. Everyone’s learning path is different and as long as a method works for someone, it is a viable option. Thanks!


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Aug 11, 2019, 02:47 AM
Registered User
Even though I could do nose in on the simulator, as soon as I had my actual helicopter in the air I found it really difficult. I don’t know why, maybe it’s because the simulator is only 2D or maybe just fear of crashing. I think it took me about 5 hours flying from tail in and side in, to get my first nose in hover. At some point it just clicked in my brain and I could do it. Also crashed a few times. It took me another 5 hours to get comfortable in all upright orientations. Stick at it you will get there. I’m now working on being able to change orientation quickly while keeping in the same place. Tail heavy heli doesn’t help.
Aug 13, 2019, 12:20 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Using a FBL with a 'self levelling' stabilisation mode and rescue is a big help for learning nose in (and learning most manoeuvres in fact). Stabilisation just makes the heli a little more forgiving while getting your head around nose in orientation and rescue saves the day if you really screw up.

Simulators are ok but not quite the same as the real thing plus some people (myself included) just find them really boring.
Aug 13, 2019, 09:12 PM
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Thread OP

Tail in control confused when practicing nose in...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer
Using a FBL with a 'self levelling' stabilisation mode and rescue is a big help for learning nose in (and learning most manoeuvres in fact). Stabilisation just makes the heli a little more forgiving while getting your head around nose in orientation and rescue saves the day if you really screw up.

Simulators are ok but not quite the same as the real thing plus some people (myself included) just find them really boring.


Agreed with the (sometimes) boredom of practicing in flight sim...and sometime unrealistic handling (with my current Absolute RC Flight Sim). But it may because the quality of flight sim so I can’t blame it. And practice / crash on flight sim don’t cost a dime to repair while gaining muscle memory...

Also understand the value of self-levelling and rescue on learning; that’s the only aid when I first learning tail in with nCPS. and now I’m working mostly in IU mode (which feels quite different vs stability mode) and this time, nS2 is my aid!

@KPB: Agreed with your idea. Being able to (comfortably) control an heli in any orientation is also my current goal. Hope you get there soon!


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Last edited by HumanYeung; Aug 13, 2019 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Revised some misleading wording to better reflect my view.
Sep 16, 2019, 12:02 AM
rc user
pdooley's Avatar
pretty much everything's been covered here.
I'll just add that for me, what helped more than anything was flying in the simulator and hovering while doing a slow piro.
you have to give constant cyclic inputs and get a feel for all 360° of orientation.

BTW this was after getting comfortable with tail in/left/right hover.
Sep 16, 2019, 02:42 AM
Registered User
Thread OP

Tail in control confused when practicing nose in...


pdooley: VSP (very slow piro) ... that’s something I still don’t have the gut to do even with my nanos. But I at least have the tools to do so—neXt in my MacBook. Much better than free flight sim.

Practice, practice, practice and more boring practice......!
(Only then one can “do the right thing” in emergency...and enjoy the real fun with less off-beat moments of disorientation.)


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Last edited by HumanYeung; Sep 16, 2019 at 02:47 AM.
Sep 20, 2019, 09:43 AM
Registered User
Steve_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer
Simulators are ok but not quite the same as the real thing plus some people (myself included) just find them really boring.
BOOM HEADSHOT (original) (3 min 42 sec)
Sep 30, 2019, 03:17 AM
Genius man
denis747's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_


If I could be on the sim all day the way some gamers do on their games I would be a pro in RC helis. Problem is there is work to go to and other stuff like a constant nagging Mrs. competing for your attention lol.
Sep 30, 2019, 04:01 AM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by denis747


If I could be on the sim all day the way some gamers do on their games I would be a pro in RC helis. Problem is there is work to go to and other stuff like a constant nagging Mrs. competing for your attention lol.


It would even be better if one can fly their favourite heli IRL all day and without fearing of crashing......or at least not worrying the repair hassles. (That’s totally idiotic thinking this way)

With sim and nanos all those nuisance has been greatly reduced. Sim time then nano time then real (big) heli time. I do feel I’m getting close to comfortably nose in all the time. Hope all goes well.


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Sep 30, 2019, 10:26 AM
Registered User
Not only is learning nose in a matter of time and practice, but you may find that you are having to relearn orientations when you go from a co-axial to a collective pitch copter.

It's not that the orientations or controls are different, it's that things usually happen much faster with a collective pitch copter, and it's harder to get away with "move the stick one way, whoops, that's not right, let's try the other direction and see if that fixes things..." before you're into the wall, a tree, or the grass.

Part of the learning curve.
Oct 02, 2019, 12:44 PM
The Other Side of Your Screen
SilverSport's Avatar
I think saves are a lot easier with CP running a constant head speed .... with FP you have to wait for the head speed to build back up. I can almost not fly FP anymore! But, nose in comes to you, flying figure 8's has helped me.
Oct 02, 2019, 08:38 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
@Prawnik: yeah. I feel the same during my nose in practice—it’s kind of learning and build up process so the brain knows what’s going on. Thing become easier with more practice.

@Sliversport: agreed that FP and CP are totally different thing in terms of flight characteristics. I lost interest on FP (and Inductrix) after flying nanos and mCPS. CPs are just more locked in in the air especially during fast stops.


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