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Aug 05, 2019, 10:57 AM
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Tail in control confused when practicing nose in...


I don’t know how everyone’s path to heli flying, but I seemed to come across a major road block during orientation practicing—nose in hover.

When practicing nose in hover, not only your stick control is relearning, it somewhat confuses your normal tail in hover and other stuff.

Did someone had the same experience somewhere during their flight career? May I have some advices or insight on how to get over it? Many thanks.


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Aug 05, 2019, 01:20 PM
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Helique's Avatar
Your experience is totally normal. Practice, practice, practice. Rchelicopterfun.com has good information on learning orientation. And of course, practicing on the simulator is the best way to keep your helicopter in good flying condition
Aug 05, 2019, 01:33 PM
Registered User
My advice is that the sticks work the same nose in or nose out. So you do not need to relearn the stick control. There really is no need to nose in hover. Doing figure eights and general flying around gets you some nose in time. And is usually easier to keep things straight in your thinking.
Aug 05, 2019, 02:59 PM
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Suckerpunch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto Rob
My advice is that the sticks work the same nose in or nose out. So you do not need to relearn the stick control. There really is no need to nose in hover. Doing figure eights and general flying around gets you some nose in time. And is usually easier to keep things straight in your thinking.
The:
There really is no need to nose hover
and your claim of the sticks work the same nose in and tail in
Lol! I couldn't let that one pass
Can you please explain why?
Last edited by Suckerpunch; Aug 06, 2019 at 01:40 AM.
Aug 05, 2019, 03:06 PM
Heligamist
BrokeDad's Avatar
Never been a problem for me. Guess it's just how I learned flying planes in the old days plus the thousand of hours on the simulator. I don't even think about it.
Aug 05, 2019, 07:44 PM
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First thanks everyone for the advice.

@Helique: yeah and I follow the same flight school page you stated and have great fun till nose in hover. And I have tried all three ways to learn nose in and so far thinks it’s easier for me to “move myself to nose in during hover” works better first. When my brain started to work I can just nose in from ground up. I currently use Absolute RC Flight sim with Trex 450 3D flybar but seems the movement is too sensitive to me.

@RotoRob and @BrokeDad: I’ve heard that RC plane flying experience do help when flying RC heli and sim time surely helps. Maybe I just need more time to get the hang of it... :-)

@suckerpunch: appreciate your question and others may have the same doubts (me included). Experience sharing always welcome!

@RotoRob: would you share some thoughts on your point? You may know for beginners that always practice tail in, being heli pointing right to him (nose in) can be quite challenging and sometimes make one panicked. Maybe you have ways to step over it faster? Feel free to share. Thanks.


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Aug 05, 2019, 08:55 PM
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Suckerpunch's Avatar
I believe from my experience and watching other advanced fliers that "nose in" orientation/hovering is an important aspect to utilize for all types of flying.
Nose in encompasses the different styles of rc heli flight:

Scale flying:
Nose in take offs and landings.
Nose in side to side flights.
Nose in autorotations.
and of course just a plain steady nose in hover for scale purposes.

Sport flying:
Building momentum from a distance away from you and in a nose in orientation executing a loop.
Nose in upright and inverted hovers.
Sideways loop (requiring nose in),regardless which side you choose from building momentum and executing a sideways loop and finishing at the opposite end.
Nose in autorotations.

F3C:
Nose in is used quite a lot in their competition from different heights requiring steady hovers especially during a windy day of competition.
Nose in moving in a lateral box pattern,stopping nose in at all four corners.
Nose in moving in a vertical and horizontal pattern to achieve a box pattern,and again stopping at each corner momentarily nose in before proceeding to the next corner.

3D flight:
Nose in tic toc's
Nose in stationary rolls/four point rolls
Nose in Woo Hoo
Nose in wave
and the list goes on in 3D flight as pilots come up with new maneuvers all the time which might include nose in orientation.

Regardless of how far you choose to endeavor in rc heli flight (and for most just scale/sport flight),i can't emphasize enough the importance of nose in orientation/hover,one can say "I choose to do without" for whatever reason,but the reality of it all is your piloting abilities/skill will always be restricted/limited due to the reluctance and or ignoring the importance of nose in.
To each his own,if your content with your rc heli flying style/ability than that's all that really matters to a lot of us,but to suggest to a beginner that nose in is not necessary or "No need"(especially if he or she is willing to learn) i find that to be very questionable.

As one other person pointed out,sim time is really whats needed to learn nose in.
One tip i can share that someone shared with me years ago is:
Which ever way the heli tilts nose in, is where you move the cyclic stick to correct the movement,but in very small increments so as to not over correct (very important) once that is achieved you want to move the cyclic stick quickly back to center to maintain a steady nose in hover.
So,if the heli is nose in and the heli is drifting to your right, quickly move in small increment right aileron and back to center right away.
Same for the opposite side.
To control drift towards you move elevator cyclic stick to back elevator(pull the cyclic stick towards you) again in small quick increment and quickly back to center to keep a stable nose in hover,drifting away from you is the obvious choice of forward elevator in small quick increment and back to center quickly.
So,if you look at your transmitter from the top down and to the cyclic stick,picture in your head the drifting of the heli,as i mentioned before move the cyclic stick towards the direction of the heli drift to correct the heli.
Before you attempt this,think about what i just wrote,let that sink in for awhile and picture in your head the concept of it all.

Happy flying
Last edited by Suckerpunch; Aug 05, 2019 at 09:58 PM.
Aug 05, 2019, 10:18 PM
Registered User
The trick that worked for me works weather you are flying helicopters or airplanes. When the craft is facing you push the right stick towards the low wing or in the case of a heli the low side. If it's leaning to the left push your stick left if it leaning away from you push the right stick away from you.
Aug 06, 2019, 04:22 AM
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Thread OP
@suckerpunch and @FearlessFlight: I think I get what you mean and the tricks...and surely need some time (if not a lot of time) to make it perfect. I will try in Sim with bigger heli (maybe a 700 class?) first before going for real time flights. Thanks.


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Aug 06, 2019, 10:27 AM
Genius man
denis747's Avatar
Also if you have a micro heli place it nose in and move it across the floor nose in and see how the controls react. Do this several times and hover it in steady increments gradually and there is a point where your brain will learn and you will be able to hold it in a steady nose in hover. Learn on a simulator too. Once confident, do it on your larger helis. That's how I learn't nose in on a V977 heli hovering in the kitchen.

Here is a video of my v977 about 4 years ago.

V977, 3 axis mode using Devo 7e (5 min 25 sec)
Last edited by denis747; Aug 06, 2019 at 10:34 AM.
Aug 06, 2019, 10:47 AM
Heligamist
BrokeDad's Avatar
Is that a washing machine in your kitchen Denis ? You brits are strange
Aug 06, 2019, 11:59 AM
Genius man
denis747's Avatar
Yes it is Dad
Aug 06, 2019, 03:49 PM
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Thickfog's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by denis747
Yes it is Dad
Must make a hell of a racket washing silverware and fine china!
Aug 06, 2019, 04:27 PM
Genius man
denis747's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thickfog
Must make a hell of a racket washing silverware and fine china!
I use only clothes in it lol. Though sometimes I forget coins inside the pockets and it makes a racket lol
Last edited by denis747; Aug 07, 2019 at 11:37 AM.
Aug 07, 2019, 10:15 AM
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Thread OP

Tail in control confused when practicing nose in...


Special thanks to @suckerpunch and fearlessflight and thanks everyone’s input. Tonight’s nose in practice got much better.

Yesterday’s flight sim time and the ticks paid off and tonight I was already going for nose in skinny nose forward figure 8s (nose in at each end) on S2 IU2 (agility mode)...!

nCPS was still in stability mode doing nose in figure 8. But that’s expected. (2 tries on IU1 result in total lost orientation and crashes, both time swashplate bearing pop out).

I will continue the practice and hopefully have some better shoots for everyone. Thanks!


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Last edited by HumanYeung; Aug 07, 2019 at 11:12 AM.


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