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Aug 06, 2019, 01:02 PM
Registered User
Wrecking Ball's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kija
I don't get it! I don't find that video impressive at all.
Same here... Everything looks blurry unless that's due to youtube's video processing. Is there a link to raw footage as a downloadable file?
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Aug 06, 2019, 01:49 PM
Registered User
fatshark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kija
I don't get it! I don't find that video impressive at all.
I agree, that wasn't a controlled released video so I don't know how it was uploaded. It doesn't represent the full resolution or actual smoothness. It does show that the latency and image is capable of delivering a license free system that can be raced with.

Wait for the videos to be posted by the usual reviewers.

Fat Shark
Aug 06, 2019, 01:51 PM
Registered User
fatshark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rclab1
Is there OSD Signal-Bars (or % signal) to tell us the HDfeed is
getting worse?...or do we just use common sense?
Same as you would analog. You fly in an area you are familiar with and when you attempt to go behind objects or into trees and see the video degrade (more static) you get a feel for what you can get away with before you need to punch out to clear LOS.

Fat Shark
Aug 06, 2019, 01:54 PM
Registered User
fatshark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trabireiter
there is some form of (simulated ?) static similar to our analog feed
Its not simulated, its missing packets of information that can't be deduced from the diversity system. Since the system ins't bi-directional, missing information doesn't get resent. It behaves very similar to analog for video degradation.

Fat Shark
Aug 06, 2019, 02:31 PM
Registered User
@fatshark: What will be in package? Is there 4 antenna RX?

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Aug 07, 2019, 07:45 AM
Rotary~myPast,Present &Future!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
One of the biggest gripes reviewers have with the new DJI system is that it requires that
you buy their proprietary expensive goggles to use it. I much prefer a standalone
HD VRX with HDMI output that I can feed to whichever goggles I prefer, whether that's
HDO, Transformers, Headplays.. etc.
If this is really based on HDZERO tech, then it looks like different VRXs with two
and four antenna diversity are options, and interestingly the ability to plug in an
analog SD camera, and run it over the HD link. That would allow one to show BF OSD
on what is hopefully a more stable link. I am curious if there will
be any provision for telemetry or control in the digital link, or OSD on the HD
image. The only real downside I see is that the onboard DVR is a separate
board, so two layers in the stack for VTX+DVR.

For me though, the "dealbreaker" in any HD link is how gracefully it degrades.
Up till now, most have been pretty terrifying when pushed to the limits.
I have a Connex receiver on my 9x radio and that outputs 1080p to my heavily modded Zeiss Cinemizers which displays are higher-res (IMHO) than most fatshark goggles with hdmi-in. I am glad that I can use my Cinemizers, not a fan of box-like goggles(DJI HD) and definitely donít wanna spend a bomb on a new pair of HD fatsharks. If the video degradation goes from pixel-less to grainy (tiny squares), with no freeze and minimal frame-drops, it will be a winner!
Aug 07, 2019, 11:17 AM
DumbThumbsFPV
Deserteagle's Avatar
while I truly think the DJI system is first class, the fact they either used a sumo wrestler or panda bear's head to mold their goggle fitment is an issue. Also there is no cheap way to use existing modules to fly existing models was a huge oversight and HDMI can cause latency as I seen 3 or 4 years ago in the headplays. I really hope fatshark makes the form factor so it can just bolt in existing quads on a 30x30 stack and play nice with crossfire. Also prefer the small size of fatshark as ot makes it easy to pack around. All I know is Fatshark better act quick cause the longer they wait the more people will view this as vaporware and go with DJI..and or Orca goggles. also summer is almost over for the northern hemisphere
Last edited by Deserteagle; Aug 07, 2019 at 11:38 AM.
Aug 07, 2019, 07:09 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserteagle
while I truly think the DJI system is first class, the fact they either used a sumo wrestler or panda bear's head to mold their goggle fitment is an issue. Also there is no cheap way to use existing modules to fly existing models was a huge oversight and HDMI can cause latency as I seen 3 or 4 years ago in the headplays. I really hope fatshark makes the form factor so it can just bolt in existing quads on a 30x30 stack and play nice with crossfire. Also prefer the small size of fatshark as ot makes it easy to pack around. All I know is Fatshark better act quick cause the longer they wait the more people will view this as vaporware and go with DJI..and or Orca goggles. also summer is almost over for the northern hemisphere
I don't know, most people I know in the hobby are just waiting to see how the DJI one shakes out, and to see how the Fatshark one is going to go.

The hobby has been down this route before with Connex and it ended with a big meh.

DJI one being locked to 25mw in CE areas (though easy workaround), forcing new incompatible goggles, non-standard size for both unit and camera, and its durability isn't tested yet. Also people might get a bit disillusioned if their now very expensive quad gets lost due to freeze-frame latency. Not to mention that double antenna direct connected to the unit, getting those torn off would be an expensive crash.

I suspect most of the market isn't going to throw large amounts of money at untested systems, all we are hearing about is the early adopters atm.
Aug 07, 2019, 08:19 PM
Registered User
Ran D. St. Clair's Avatar
The Connex was far worse than "meh". Randomly going from a strong signal to nothing for 3 seconds or more while the HDMI link went down and back up was a deal breaker, at least for me. I am still quite ticked off about all the money and time I wasted trying to get them to understand and fix it.

It sounds like both the Fatshark and DJI guys understand that this is a big deal and have dealt with it as much as the laws of physics allow. I wish them both well, and I hope they push each other to make a better product. My sense is that there is still a lot of room for improvement here, though I know less about the Fatshark offering.

I have to say though, being able to actually see is a big deal. Analog video is relative crap, and there will come a time when we all laugh about how we used to fly like that.
Aug 07, 2019, 08:46 PM
DumbThumbsFPV
Deserteagle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran D. St. Clair
The Connex was far worse than "meh". Randomly going from a strong signal to nothing for 3 seconds or more while the HDMI link went down and back up was a deal breaker, at least for me. I am still quite ticked off about all the money and time I wasted trying to get them to understand and fix it.

It sounds like both the Fatshark and DJI guys understand that this is a big deal and have dealt with it as much as the laws of physics allow. I wish them both well, and I hope they push each other to make a better product. My sense is that there is still a lot of room for improvement here, though I know less about the Fatshark offering.

I have to say though, being able to actually see is a big deal. Analog video is relative crap, and there will come a time when we all laugh about how we used to fly like that.
Analog will be with us for as long as the digital systems are too large for whoops and smaller quads. Whoops and smaller quads make up a large portion of sales. But yeah crap
Aug 07, 2019, 09:34 PM
'Extreme Fabricator'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserteagle
Analog will be with us for as long as the digital systems are too large for whoops and smaller quads. Whoops and smaller quads make up a large portion of sales. But yeah crap
Integration is key. It will come down to the time when manufacturers make a single chip transmitter that integrates what we currently think of as ultra wide bandwidth video (FHD/UHD) combined with powerful video data compression and applying effective error correction and modulation/demodulation along with spread spectrum rf generation, all done onboard the one chip. Guaranteed, it will happen soon, as it has with WiFi, Bluetooth, LoRa and a myriad of other devices.
I believe it will again be other area's that will propel it forward, as the RC industry isn't even a grain of sand in the market needed, but FHD surveillance and wireless display devices for the home market will be the key. Now that the resolution of camera sensors are highly evolved in the consumer price point of the market, the rest of the peripheral devices will eventually have to catch up.
Ran D. St Clair's prophesy is 100% correct, just like we all watch analogue broadcast 576i CRT televisions and think, man, look how awesome that picture is... oh, sorry, I was thinking 20 years ago when we all thought black and white tv was only good enough for the spare room...
Analogue may stay around for many more years, but when HD hit's it's mark, nobody who adopts it will ever go back, and few buyers will step in to an analogue entry point when manufacturing costs equalise.
Aug 08, 2019, 01:05 AM
Rotary~myPast,Present &Future!
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicecooper
Analogue may stay around for many more years, but when HD hit's it's mark, nobody who adopts it will ever go back, and few buyers will step in to an analogue entry point when manufacturing costs equalise.
Or we may be seeing analog HD, itís definitely possible as proven by MR RC-Cam in his DIY Analog HD contraption:
https://www.rc-cam.com/forum/index.p...&comment=29112
Aug 08, 2019, 01:20 AM
DumbThumbsFPV
Deserteagle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicecooper
Integration is key. It will come down to the time when manufacturers make a single chip transmitter that integrates what we currently think of as ultra wide bandwidth video (FHD/UHD) combined with powerful video data compression and applying effective error correction and modulation/demodulation along with spread spectrum rf generation, all done onboard the one chip. Guaranteed, it will happen soon, as it has with WiFi, Bluetooth, LoRa and a myriad of other devices.
I believe it will again be other area's that will propel it forward, as the RC industry isn't even a grain of sand in the market needed, but FHD surveillance and wireless display devices for the home market will be the key. Now that the resolution of camera sensors are highly evolved in the consumer price point of the market, the rest of the peripheral devices will eventually have to catch up.
Ran D. St Clair's prophesy is 100% correct, just like we all watch analogue broadcast 576i CRT televisions and think, man, look how awesome that picture is... oh, sorry, I was thinking 20 years ago when we all thought black and white tv was only good enough for the spare room...
Analogue may stay around for many more years, but when HD hit's it's mark, nobody who adopts it will ever go back, and few buyers will step in to an analogue entry point when manufacturing costs equalise.
yeah but anytime you compress and decompress and image it will cause latency. There is only so much bandwidth you can use and still have penetration on the limited frequencies we can use.

Actually you would have to go back to 40 years ago when a black and white set was good for a spare room. It's honestly not the same thing as we need real time HD video without high latency, pixelation and penetration. This is not an easy thing to do especially when the broadcast is moving at high speed.

Analog will be with us for some time and I'm thinking for at least 10 more years as more people are flying smaller quads because of price and also government regulations. I think it will be some time before you can shrink up an HD system to work on a sub 150g quad and or a whoop or toothpick style quad. 5 inch and 3 inch quads I can see the fatshark system working on.

We will see. All I do know is right now and the foreseeable future any HD product coming to market needs to have analog. I just watched the current or old members of RR new videos and don't see any of them flying the new DJI system but instead they are showing off in the new videos of them flying with their fatsharks and Rapidfires so apparently they don't have the DJI system anymore or they are not impressed with it... also could be old footage?. even Drew's new vid is about how to get better penetration from analog...

The First Ever Backward Power Loop!!! Cricket Vs. Stingy Round Two (15 min 54 sec)


planning for "good video" at a NEW FPV spot! (*analog video*) (13 min 58 sec)
Last edited by Deserteagle; Aug 08, 2019 at 01:38 AM.
Aug 08, 2019, 01:25 AM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
xanuser's Avatar
wouldn't it be interesting if after this whole HD bubble deflates, we come full circle and end up just improving analog to something much better than PAL/NTSC, but sill not digital HD?
Ill check back in a couple of years.
Aug 08, 2019, 01:41 AM
DumbThumbsFPV
Deserteagle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanuser
wouldn't it be interesting if after this whole HD bubble deflates, we come full circle and end up just improving analog to something much better than PAL/NTSC, but sill not digital HD?
Ill check back in a couple of years.
yeah.. I think the hobby is at a plateau right now and HD will drive it to the next level though.. I would like to see a more ergonomic radio and a better battery technology.


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