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Feb 27, 2020, 02:25 AM
Registered User
Can't remember if I posted my flying swat here?
3D printing in polycarbonate allows me to do some interesting things!

This flies surprisingly well!

https://rotorbuilds.com/build/20771
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Feb 27, 2020, 10:21 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by quad66
I agree with info on the OSD particularly throttle percent, voltage, and fly time. For example throttle percent lets you know where hover is on the stick and how much throttle it takes to change direction and punch over things. It lets you know if the quad is over/under powered or balanced. Voltage with time and stick gives a good indication if the quad is over or under batteried.

I look for it particularly on the types of builds that I would probably not build. It gives a good reality check if you are on the right track for what you are trying to accomplish with a build or not.

For the forums to be useful there needs to be a healthy exchange of ideas that is mutually beneficial the interacting forum members.
Exactly, if I see a build is hovering at less then 20% throttle on 2s that really piques my interest, moreso if it's a 1s build that's hovering at low percentages
Feb 27, 2020, 09:26 PM
Registered User
Getting "runaways" on my Primo 3" running 4.1.1. 1106 6500 3s 650 Tattu BetaFPV 20a FC (Another POS BetaFPV board :-() , EMAX AVAN 3x2.4x3" props and stock settings. (minus the RPM Filtering setup JB Video) Motors are not hot. I go to start up and as I ramp up in throttle it goes into flyway mode (goes full throttle no control over anything), It then recovers and does it again about 20 seconds later. I just landed the POS and flew some other stuff. I think I have some video, if anyone is interested. This quad has been my problem child for six months. I've gotten three amazing flights out of 8 motors, and 3 20a FC's, three VTX's and four frames (Sanchez 3", Pickle 3", DamFast FPV 3" , Primo 2.5" RIP). It's really testing me. I think I'm close though finally got all motors spinning up and smart audio working, just need to address the tune.

Next step just havent flown yet.
I've gone ahead upgraded to 4.1.4, and installed jazzmac 16.79 and setup RPM filtering. Left pid's stock. If that dont work what should I start doing??? Was gonna start by decreasing the master multiplier first? Should I miss with lowering D on PIDS's by 1/3rd or use the sliders? OR does anyone else have a high kv tune for an ultra light 3" they want to share?

These are new props but think they may be an issue. May swap to GF 3x25x3's or HQ 3x3x3 the HQ 3x16x3 flutter not stiff enough.
Feb 28, 2020, 01:23 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidy$Trainer
Getting "runaways" on my Primo 3" running 4.1.1. 1106 6500 3s 650 Tattu BetaFPV 20a FC (Another POS BetaFPV board :-() , EMAX AVAN 3x2.4x3" props and stock settings. (minus the RPM Filtering setup JB Video) Motors are not hot. I go to start up and as I ramp up in throttle it goes into flyway mode (goes full throttle no control over anything), It then recovers and does it again about 20 seconds later. I just landed the POS and flew some other stuff. I think I have some video, if anyone is interested. This quad has been my problem child for six months. I've gotten three amazing flights out of 8 motors, and 3 20a FC's, three VTX's and four frames (Sanchez 3", Pickle 3", DamFast FPV 3" , Primo 2.5" RIP). It's really testing me. I think I'm close though finally got all motors spinning up and smart audio working, just need to address the tune.

Next step just havent flown yet.
I've gone ahead upgraded to 4.1.4, and installed jazzmac 16.79 and setup RPM filtering. Left pid's stock. If that dont work what should I start doing??? Was gonna start by decreasing the master multiplier first? Should I miss with lowering D on PIDS's by 1/3rd or use the sliders? OR does anyone else have a high kv tune for an ultra light 3" they want to share?

These are new props but think they may be an issue. May swap to GF 3x25x3's or HQ 3x3x3 the HQ 3x16x3 flutter not stiff enough.
I'd maybe just license one of your fcs with official jesc to verify that the jazzmac fw isn't causing any issues
Feb 28, 2020, 03:00 AM
Registered User
In my experience a light weight quad of these specs needs very low pids. Like P= 23, D = 20 maybe. Maybe even lower. Flyaways are usually triggered by too little filtering or excessive pids leading to D resonance. If you've used stock filtering its the pids for sure. 3s at 6500kv is quite a lot.

As long as your tune is still not working right I would avoid the more experimental JazzMac rpm versions which add (in my view) questionable things like pwm alignment and some sort of unspecified motor boost with not really predictable effects. I just started a JESC FB group and have a celebration sale for reaching 500 members in two days. With coupon JESCFB the 20 pack jesc licenses is only $17.99 through Saturday if you're out of licenses. If you do want to stick with JM I've heard the earlier versions (like 16.71 or 16.73) are more predictable.

As an example for lower pids - my nk1306 3" can't take more than this before it starts oscillating:

set p_pitch = 16
set i_pitch = 20
set d_pitch = 14
set f_pitch = 30
set p_roll = 16
set i_roll = 20
set d_roll = 14
set f_roll = 30
set p_yaw = 13
set i_yaw = 50
set f_yaw = 0


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidy$Trainer
Getting "runaways" on my Primo 3" running 4.1.1. 1106 6500 3s 650 Tattu BetaFPV 20a FC (Another POS BetaFPV board :-() , EMAX AVAN 3x2.4x3" props and stock settings. (minus the RPM Filtering setup JB Video) Motors are not hot. I go to start up and as I ramp up in throttle it goes into flyway mode (goes full throttle no control over anything), It then recovers and does it again about 20 seconds later. I just landed the POS and flew some other stuff. I think I have some video, if anyone is interested. This quad has been my problem child for six months. I've gotten three amazing flights out of 8 motors, and 3 20a FC's, three VTX's and four frames (Sanchez 3", Pickle 3", DamFast FPV 3" , Primo 2.5" RIP). It's really testing me. I think I'm close though finally got all motors spinning up and smart audio working, just need to address the tune.

Next step just havent flown yet.
I've gone ahead upgraded to 4.1.4, and installed jazzmac 16.79 and setup RPM filtering. Left pid's stock. If that dont work what should I start doing??? Was gonna start by decreasing the master multiplier first? Should I miss with lowering D on PIDS's by 1/3rd or use the sliders? OR does anyone else have a high kv tune for an ultra light 3" they want to share?

These are new props but think they may be an issue. May swap to GF 3x25x3's or HQ 3x3x3 the HQ 3x16x3 flutter not stiff enough.
Feb 28, 2020, 04:36 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidy$Trainer
Getting "runaways" on my Primo 3" running 4.1.1. 1106 6500 3s 650 Tattu BetaFPV 20a FC (Another POS BetaFPV board :-() ,
Don't worry!
Stock PIDs are too high for high power micros. Start with the master PID slider at 0.7 max and see how that flies...
Feb 28, 2020, 09:28 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylormadearmy
Can't remember if I posted my flying swat here?
3D printing in polycarbonate allows me to do some interesting things!

This flies surprisingly well!

https://rotorbuilds.com/build/20771
That could come in handy for a Millennium Falcon build.
Feb 29, 2020, 06:03 PM
Team WarpSquad
Brainstorm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_OH
Don't have one, never really even worried about weights, other than close with these things.
Brian_OH: Get yourself an American Weigh Scales AWS-100 off Amazon. (This is the 100g model that measures down to 0.01g.)

Best ten bucks (not even) that you'll ever spend on micros!
Last edited by Brainstorm; Feb 29, 2020 at 06:09 PM.
Feb 29, 2020, 07:11 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_206
I'd maybe just license one of your fcs with official jesc to verify that the jazzmac fw isn't causing any issues
Bidir and RPM filtering worked really good on my BLHeli32 builds.

Im an idiot. I just blindly flashed JazzMac. And not just any. The 48Khz.

Maybe those experimental 48KHz power boost features caused my 5" flyaway... I dunno...

For micro/ 3" folks its tough cause few BLHeli_32 ESC...
Mar 01, 2020, 03:04 AM
Fan of just about anything RC
SoloProFan's Avatar
Afaik you don't get extra power from 48KHz mode, just reduced current draw, at least that is often listed as the main reason to use it.
Latest blog entry: For the love of the hobby!
Mar 01, 2020, 03:35 AM
Just an earth-bound misfit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainstorm
Brian_OH: Get yourself an American Weigh Scales AWS-100 off Amazon. (This is the 100g model that measures down to 0.01g.)

Best ten bucks (not even) that you'll ever spend on micros!
They're cheap enough and easy enough to find around here, I just was never all that curious about what my quad parts actually weighed. As long as I had an idea that this part was a lot . . . or not . . . heavier than another one, that was close enough for me to decide.

I never really thought the little flying toys I was putting together were all that complicated or intricate by design and choice. I was never looking for a major or involved project at all. For me, at least for now and where I mostly fly and how I fly what I've built, on anything bigger than a 65 Whoop, a couple grams, or even more doesn't make all that much of a difference to me. . . If I think it flies good and is fun to take out, and I get at least my 5 minute air time off what might even be a bigger battery on it, I'm good. I got most of what I've learned about putting these together from the people on these forums that know a lot more than me about them, putting it all together, and making my best guess how to/what to put together to get what I want.

You all have got me curious now . . . I'll p/u a scale and weigh the critter and see how I did. I saw they list the KK ET series, 115 & 125, probably as close to this size in a Whoop, the original 115 @ 89.1 and 125 @ 93.2 both with 1104 motors. The new 125 4S with 1305s is 117.2. I would think I came in a bit lighter than the original 115 just from my flight times. 6 minutes on a 600 2S, and one of the reasons I never got an ET was their lame flight times . . . because of their weight, even on the "smaller" 100 . . .


************************************************** ***********************************************************

And for the longer flight times . . . the other?? main reason for the 48kHz upgrade . . . I hope. I can't get the couple I upgraded to it outside and up in the air for a whole battery of flying to see !! Sunday is my one chance for probably a week to get outside air time, so I will try to check them both out. I have read really good things about very noticeable increases in flight times, and like you mentioned, a lower amp draw too . . . excellent work with that and all the things it can do that are well beyond what I can notice . . . that really is an amazing project he put together, and all his time he dedicates to it.
Mar 01, 2020, 06:20 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by romangpro
Bidir and RPM filtering worked really good on my BLHeli32 builds.

Im an idiot. I just blindly flashed JazzMac. And not just any. The 48Khz.

Maybe those experimental 48KHz power boost features caused my 5" flyaway... I dunno...

For micro/ 3" folks its tough cause few BLHeli_32 ESC...
Yeah 48khz is not wise to run on a 5" from what I've read especially with the jazzmac fw
Mar 02, 2020, 03:50 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_206
Yeah 48khz is not wise to run on a 5" from what I've read especially with the jazzmac fw
I don't think it's necessarily 48khz related. Many people have run jesc 48khz pwm without problems on 5". But I would always start out with 24khz pwm which having been around forever has had much more testing. Then try 48khz pwm once you know everything works fine and see if you like it.
Mar 02, 2020, 04:57 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelucid
I don't think it's necessarily 48khz related. Many people have run jesc 48khz pwm without problems on 5". But I would always start out with 24khz pwm which having been around forever has had much more testing. Then try 48khz pwm once you know everything works fine and see if you like it.
He could've been on 4.0, didn't that build have flyaway issues? Could be jazzmac related, hard to tell with so many variables
Mar 02, 2020, 09:22 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelucid View Post
In my experience a light weight quad of these specs needs very low pids. Like P= 23, D = 20 maybe. Maybe even lower. Flyaways are usually triggered by too little filtering or excessive pids leading to D resonance. If you've used stock filtering its the pids for sure. 3s at 6500kv is quite a lot.

As long as your tune is still not working right I would avoid the more experimental JazzMac rpm versions which add (in my view) questionable things like pwm alignment and some sort of unspecified motor boost with not really predictable effects. I just started a JESC FB group and have a celebration sale for reaching 500 members in two days. With coupon JESCFB the 20 pack jesc licenses is only $17.99 through Saturday if you're out of licenses. If you do want to stick with JM I've heard the earlier versions (like 16.71 or 16.73) are more predictable.

As an example for lower pids - my nk1306 3" can't take more than this before it starts oscillating:

set p_pitch = 16
set i_pitch = 20
set d_pitch = 14
set f_pitch = 30
set p_roll = 16
set i_roll = 20
set d_roll = 14
set f_roll = 30
set p_yaw = 13
set i_yaw = 50
set f_yaw = 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylormadearmy View Post
Don't worry!
Stock PIDs are too high for high power micros. Start with the master PID slider at 0.7 max and see how that flies...
Thanks for the assistance guys. Addressing some mechanical issues and lowering PID's has helped dramatically. I aslo increased MOTOR TIMING to high. Not sure if this is a good thing but from what I've read this helps to reduce desync issues. I have about six packs on it and on the last pack pushing it pretty hard I had a desync and noticed motors were a lot warmer than usual. I swapped out all motor screws and made 100% they were the correct length. I also played with the sliders and wound up around .8 but will re-adjust to .7 for starters as I like the slider concept and if that doesnt work I'll use JL's recommendations which may need a tweak as there slightly lower in KV. Actually I will try both and see which works better. Quad weighs 76g AUW with 3s 650 is 128g.

The Pro's it's CONSIDERABLY faster than any ultralight 3" / Toothpick or any other 3" perhaps accept for the GT349 but it's LOUD hard to compare speed unless I get them side by side. I've flown or have seen fly by a wide margin. The CONS 2-3 minutes of very spirited flying. Honestly all you want to do is stay on the throttle it's addicting. Punchouts and hangtimes are insane. Feels like defying gravity, compared to the 4500-5000kv typical setups there is just NO comparison in power or acceleration aspect and at 6g and 500g of thrust this sucker add's a whole new pucker factor.

Also gonna go order another Sanchez 3" 3mm frame unless someone has an alternative. The Primo 3" with 2 mounting holes and 2.5mm champhered arms is just not durable enough.

These are my current PIDS and are considerably higher than yours JL. I will try yours out and go from there. I'll also apply those to my other build which also running RCX 1306-6000kv :-)

set p_pitch = 26
set i_pitch = 72
set d_pitch = 27
set f_pitch = 61
set p_roll = 25
set i_roll = 68
set d_roll = 26
set f_roll = 58
set p_yaw = 22
set i_yaw = 72
set f_yaw = 67
Last edited by Fidy$Trainer; Mar 02, 2020 at 10:37 AM.


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