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Jan 19, 2020, 07:28 PM
CRASH, FIX, REPEAT
helibard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridgerunr
I resemble that remark!
Thank you so much. Those settings did the trick for me. I searched and searched, never thought about looking in the 230 V1 pages.
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Jan 20, 2020, 06:00 AM
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PaulB's Avatar
Not trying to throw a spanner in the works by over complicating things......

Not even sure if Spektrum transmitters can be made to do this but I have always linked my Dual Rates (throw) to my Flight Modes and it works a treat.

Taking the 'standard' blade kind of set up (and I have now moved my K110 over to these settings) you have a 'stabilised' (rock solid beginner or just relaxed floating around) selected it also selects the 'lower rate' (75 in the example posted) and the higher rate (100) when selecting agility with whatever suits in the 'middle' position.

Paul
Latest blog entry: Just To Say Hello.......
Jan 20, 2020, 11:48 PM
Registered User
I replaced the bent feathering spindle on my crashed 150s and was about to replace the main shaft because it now tips over all the time before lift off. After the last attempt I powered down and looked and the swash plate wasn't even close to level. The left side was way up and the right side way down. Is that normal? I manually moved the servos to center positions and it was level by eyeball and plugged in the battery thinking maybe it was initializing incorrectly. But it went back to seriously unlevel. Is there a simple way to at least get the swash to a ballpark level? I mean it isn't even close to level, no wonder its tipping over.
Jan 20, 2020, 11:50 PM
Registered User
Thread OP

Blade 150s!?


Not normal.

I think itís better to remove the servo arms and reinstall them when all servos are in their neutral position.

PS: assuming the linkages were not bent or had other issue.


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Jan 21, 2020, 12:11 AM
Registered User
The linkages look straight. I didn't think the servo arms could slip and get out of adjustment like that. Airplane and truck servos have tooth-like projections that would seem pretty hard to slip. I just noticed the same problem on my brand new blade 330s. (but not my trusty 230sv2 or nano s2 or mcpx bl2.) I'm going to recenter the arms like you suggest by eyeball. I don't have a swash leveler tool. Maybe I should buy one. The manual says I may need to reset the servos to the default neutral position. Should I do that first?
Jan 21, 2020, 12:16 AM
Registered User
Thread OP

Blade 150s!?


Hope it helps.

If even that doesnít fix the issue...I would suspect something wrong with the servo itself...

Just my 2 cents.

PS: normally I just let it initialise (without binding to TX) and then unplug the flight battery then do the servo adjust/swashplate levelling thing...have not tried the Servo adjustment method per manual stated. Maybe others have more advices?

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Last edited by HumanYeung; Jan 21, 2020 at 12:22 AM.
Jan 21, 2020, 12:45 AM
Registered User
Wow, I tried to enter servo adjustment mode (for the 150s) but it didn't do anything because my transmitter has forward programming. Using that I entered swashplate settings which seemed to put it in adjusting mode where control stick and gyro inputs are disabled and the swashplate went level. So it seems I may have a bent main rotor shaft after all. Or bent head. And that's causing the gyro to tilt the swash on the 150s. Or maybe the crash did something bad to the gyro itself. It also seems to mean something is out of balance on my brand new never flown or crashed blade 330s, Just plugged in the battery and did the bind. Then checked the rudder servo and motor functions without trying to lift off-just getting light on the skids. I heard that giving any right stick input before liftoff with the motor running can confuse the fbl gyros. But I did check those servos with throttle hold on. Well, the good news is I may not need to adjust the servos.
Last edited by Mortimerex; Jan 21, 2020 at 12:59 AM.
Jan 21, 2020, 05:22 AM
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PaulB's Avatar
Guys,

think that you may be jumping to conclusions here...

dependant upon which mode you are in the flight controller (gyro isn't really the correct term) is trying to keep the model either upright and level or in the position that you have steered it in and to do that it 'senses' movement (rotation around an axis) and velocity (the speed of the movement) and then does some black magic to make it all work. Now, if you have the model on the table or in your hand and you move it fractionally the Black Box thinks that the model is in the air and tries to correct. Once the correction is applied it will 'listen' to itself to see if the movement has stopped and if not will give more correction, this then goes into a 'death spiral' with the servos off centre waiting for the black box to tell them "well done boys, did a good job now back to the middle".

So, your servos will pretty much never be level when you are not in the air however the effect will be far more in 'stability mode' (have a look at my video about the figuring out which mode you are in and look at the swash with the model tilted) than in 'agility mode' but it does affect both.

The only way to level you swash is to put the model into servo setting mode as this drives the servos to the 'zero' position and switches off the stabiliser. A cable tie around the mast (remove before flight ) works well enough to level the swash, Google it and give it a go before you buy a tool.

Now, tipping over on the ground (the real cause of your problems), that will be due to exactly what I described above!!! When 'starting out' (which we all did, so no shame there) you are probably being slightly hesitant and probably flying off of grass, the model gets 'light on the skids' and the flight controller will be 'feeling' a tiny amount of aileron (roll) due to the tail rotor pushing. It will then try to correct but not receive any feedback (model is still on the ground or rubbing the grass) so it will give more throw making the model tip.

Cures, 1) get 2 pieces of thin carbon rod or bamboo sticks and bind them in a cross to your skids until you get used to lifting off cleanly. 2) lift off more aggressively to get the model off of the ground and clear of the grass as soon as possible 3) try not to (difficult for a beginner) make any control inputs (except collective pitch) until you have lifted off.

You have to be 'positive' about getting the model airborne, once the blades are up to speed leave the sticks alone and smoothly push the collective up to where you know that the model will lift off and then leave it alone, you will be rewarded with you Baby lifting off straight and true and sitting in a nice flat hover.

Paul
Latest blog entry: Just To Say Hello.......
Jan 21, 2020, 09:03 AM
Registered User
Ok, so not lifting off fast enough may be the real problem. Up to this point I have always lifted off very quickly because my 250cfx especially would tip a lot. My 230sv2, nano s2 and mcpx bl2 lift off so quick that it doesn't seem to have a chance to tip. I do still fly in self leveling stability mode almost all the time. The 330s has a tail servo that I can and should preflight check while in throttle hold but the only way to check the rudder on the 150s is to eyeball to see if the tail motor seems up to speed. But what puzzles me is that the swash goes crooked on the 150s and 330s when I just plug in the battery and not do anything at all. Or is the flight control just "remembering" my last non flight? (I plugged in the battery again and the swash on the 330s went level, so lesson learned: don't dink around without actually lifting off relatively quickly).
Last edited by Mortimerex; Jan 23, 2020 at 11:35 PM.
Jan 21, 2020, 12:50 PM
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PaulB's Avatar
Just tried mine and if I sit her level between plugging in and the 'swash plate jig' mine sits level . Have her tilted and the swash is crooked till I sit her flat.
Incidentally, if you have someone who can 3D print this works :-

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1051208

So now for the next pearl of wisdom, however most of the experts here on RC Groups flame me when I post it but I have tested and I am right but it's up to you....

Flight controllers work using accelerometers to measure angles and speed then they work out how to make the model do what we want (move or stay still). The only 'inputs' that they can work with are the signal from the transmitter which says 'rotate the model at this rate' (zero to stay still) or when they rotate around an axis the angle of movement and the speed. What they don't know is stuff like how long your push rods are or where the servo arms sit. Now, If the servo arms are not at 90 degrees or the swash is tilted as soon as you lift off the flight controller will just sense the movement and tune it out. How would a black plastic box know if it is wind or a crooked servo?? I do accept that to fly perfectly it is very advisable to set a model up as level as you can but to be honest, if you spend 1/2 fiddling with push rods or 1/2 hour putting some packs through and getting air time the latter will bring you far more.

Point is, a model will hover and fly around perfectly well with the set-up out of true because if it didn't it couldn't fly at all. Everyone (well, lots of people) 'in the early stages' pose the question, "why does my model hover with one skid low" or "why is my model tilted when I hover" (give it a quick search on here and see how many hits you get) and the experts will explain that the tail rotor exhibits a side-ways force which the aileron will compensate for and that is a fact pretty much set in stone. We than hear (from the same experts) that you have to set your swash and servo arms at exactly 90 degrees. They then take off and the swash tilts in the hover to compensate for the tail and stays off-set whenever they hover and amazingly the FBL controller doesn't give two hoots and works perfectly, odd that isn't it???

So, don't overly sweat it, sure, a good set up will help because once you go out of 90 degrees you get unequal throw but once again, the FBL unit will compensate so IMHO you shouldn't sweat too much over it.

Having just said 'IMHO' I did once deliberately move the servo arms (all 3 of them) off-centre and yes, she tipped over, why????? Because I was too hesitant and she did exactly what I posted and caught a skid in the grass. Next flights she lifted off fine, flew inverted and upright exactly as with the arms level but I did note that after landing I had to use a touch of cyclic to keep the disk level as it wanted to tip, again due to being on the ground and moving slightly but that was only in Idle Up 1 (less pitch) in Idle Up 2 with 8 degrees of negative pitch she stuck to the ground like you know what.

Paul
Latest blog entry: Just To Say Hello.......
Jan 21, 2020, 04:31 PM
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Hubert1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsumpter
OK, got some time to sit down and play with the mode settings this morning. My values do not match what everyone else has, but it's all there and set up working as expected. To determine this I put channel 5 on a knob with extended limits (-150 ~ +150). Here's what I found:
  • -150 thru -100 = STABILITY
  • -99 thru +41 = AGILITY
  • +42 thru +99 = INTERMEDIATE
  • +100 thru +150 = STABILITY

This was verified by noting the overall swash travel and collective travel as I went through the modes. It appears intermediate is just stability without the bank or collective limits, but is still self leveling. I could tell no difference in stability mode whether I went into it on the minus side (-150 ~ -100) or on the plus side (+100 ~ +150). Panic is working as expected driving output to +150.

I ended up grabbing numbers within the ranges above, and now my mode switch is set up as follows:
  • AGILITY - Switch UP: +0
  • INTERMEDIATE - Switch MIDDLE: +50
  • STABILITY - Switch DOWN: +100
  • PANIC - Momentary Switch: +150

As mentioned I have no clue why the normal number ranges aren't working for me, but wanted to post this here in case anyone else runs across this scenario. If it matters, I'm using the X10S Express radio with the multi-protocol module on the latest firmware.
Any chance you'd have the file for it? I have the exact same radio (with the jumper multi-module) and am kind of struggling to set it up, I'm new to both helis and opentx. Got it to work to the point that it flew but the tail waggle was really bad and the modes didn't work. I have been using my dx7s but would be nice to use the horus.
Jan 21, 2020, 09:12 PM
Haway the lads!
I am contemplating getting one of these.
I have not flown a heli since the summer before last (I think ).

How does the 150s compare flight wise to the 180CFX?

I kind of liked my 180 but it always felt a like the power to weight ratio was on a little on the heavy side. Is the 150 the same, reading through the thread it sounds like the 150s might actually fly better.

Gonna dig through my spares for my 180 at the weekend and see if I can get her flying.
But the 150s might be just the thing to get my enthusiasm back.

What do you guys reckon, get a 150s or just fix the 180 and stick with that?
Jan 21, 2020, 09:20 PM
I strongly recommend the 150s over the 180CFX. It is more powerful because it is 15% lighter and it does not have to drive the tail. It is also much more durable and reliable because you do not have the tail components to worry about.
Jan 21, 2020, 11:20 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenx
I am contemplating getting one of these.

I have not flown a heli since the summer before last (I think ).



How does the 150s compare flight wise to the 180CFX?



I kind of liked my 180 but it always felt a like the power to weight ratio was on a little on the heavy side. Is the 150 the same, reading through the thread it sounds like the 150s might actually fly better.



Gonna dig through my spares for my 180 at the weekend and see if I can get her flying.

But the 150s might be just the thing to get my enthusiasm back.



What do you guys reckon, get a 150s or just fix the 180 and stick with that?

TBH, both may work well.

150S give you similar setup of 180CFX without the nuisances of tail maintenance...with upgraded electronics and share most parts of 180CFX. A bit lighter and more durable too.

I donít own a 180CFX so canít compare their flight characteristics. But 180CFX is still a great heli of its size despite all the pros and cons from historical comments.

I would recommend 150S if you want to have something reliable for daily flying and donít need super precise tail hold requirements (still, variable pitch tail is better on that aspect). It may not be the best flyer (when compared against M2/Align T-300X/etc.), but it can surely help you go through the learning curve without too much maintenance time and cost.


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Jan 22, 2020, 03:44 AM
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PaulB's Avatar
I have both (180 and 150) and prefer the 150.
I find that the 180 flies very aggressively (maybe my set-up) and the 150 seems to be softer but with , if anything, more power. Hard to explain but generally the 150 feels more tuned-in out of the box than I ever got the 180, even after fitting a Brain FBL but it is probably a bit like boxer shorts, pizza and ladies, what one man loves, another doesn't like.....

Paul
Latest blog entry: Just To Say Hello.......


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