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Feb 14, 2005, 09:15 PM
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portablevcb's Avatar
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Rake 54" SPAD XIII


Well, here it is. The start of the great rib building adventure. I am my own worst enemy it seems. I asked about Pete designing the WACO SRE, and a couple of weeks later I have plans for it. Now I went and asked him for a good SPAD XIII and he does it again. Got me plans in mid November, catching me right in the middle of my Bird Dog build and hack for Pat Tritle.

Here's the web site I am using for doing the build. Some guys were nice enough to completely tear down and rebuild a SPAD just for me!

http://storage.mfa.free.fr/SpadXIIIuk.html

Here is picture of the plane in case anyone forgot what it lookes like.

The finish will be that of one of Frank Luke's planes. Main reason is because I was born and raised in Phoenix, which was where Frank was from (Luke AFB is named after him).

charlie
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Feb 14, 2005, 09:22 PM
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vonJaerschky's Avatar
Sounds like a nicely sized airplane. I'm sure it will be a great flyer. What are you planning on using for power? Seems like the smaller scale electrics are slowly growing a bit in size as more power is available from small brushless motors and LiPos. (...and judging from comments in another thread started by Kurt Bengtson here). Looks like a winner! Will these plans be freebies in FSM, too?
Feb 14, 2005, 09:24 PM
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portablevcb's Avatar
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First construction photo!

Top right wing panel and center section. The scale is right at 1/6. Will be a big hummer, probably in the 4lb range. Now you can see what I meant about all those ribs. 94 of them!!! You can see the second stack for the top wing near the black sharpie. This is per full size (yes, I counted all of them on the web site listed above ).

Pete's power recommendation is as the other larger models of his, a sp600race with olympus drive. I will be staying with the olympus belt drive, cause I love the rumbling sound it makes (I know a really technical and rational decision ). The motor will be the large Himaxx brushless with 3s2p 2100 thunder power LiPo's. I will prop it for ~35A current draw. I also have a magnetic mayhem that might be tried depending on how this thing flies. Prop size will be somewhere between 13" and 15" dia.

Oh, and don't hold your breath for upcoming photos. I might be able to get in a couple a week. This is more of a 'realtime' build than a "build most of it then post pics" like I did with the WACO.

Thanks Pete!

charlie
Feb 14, 2005, 09:34 PM
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Von J,

I don't believe FSM will include plans this size as freebies. You'll have to go to Pete for them. Pete will probably submit this as an article, and someday it may appear in print, or as a picture in one of his monthly column articles. In return for building one of these for him, he gets the rights to all construction photos and the article. I like it!

I actually wanted something in the 40" range, but, forgot about Pete's motor choices. He likes to build for sp400 and sp600 to allow those on a budget to be able to build and fly inexpensively. So, 54" it was. Pete already had the big SE5a that flew well at this size so I suspect that is where some of his inspiration came from.

Maybe when the prices of speed controllers drop a bit (like the new EFlite's) then we can convince him to go with some brushless designs. The brushless motor, speed control (CC 45A) and the LiPos were over $250! A magnetic mayhem, 8x3300NiMh and a 50A brushed speed control could be had for around $150.

FWIW, this will be my largest airplane built! My GP Ryan STA EP is 48" span and 54oz.

charlie
Feb 14, 2005, 09:51 PM
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vonJaerschky's Avatar
Well, it looks fabulous so far! That structure will be gorgeous, and will be well worth the effort. I scaractch built my 1/4 scale Dr1, so know all about cutting **** ribs. Seems like it's never going to end. Those ailerons look pretty big for the size of the wing - should be quite responsive.
Feb 15, 2005, 03:08 AM
Registered User
Charlie,
That's a great looking start mate. Really nice.
Oh!!! When you said bigger, I just took you at your word. Ooops!!!!

The big problem with scalloped trailing edges is that unless you use the correct number of ribs they start to look silly. It's obvious where the ribs are supposed to be, so you have to include them.
Charlies life was made even more complicated by the fact that they can't all be cut as a block, there are several different rib styles in the model.

VonJ,
This will definitely appear in FSM but I can't guarantee it will be a free plan. Despite being spread over 4 sheets, each sheet is bigger than the free plan format. Until it does appear, I'm quite happy to make the plan file available but not for free.

Pete
Feb 15, 2005, 08:27 AM
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vonJaerschky's Avatar
Peter - One could ask for no more.... Nice to see some of your designs in this size.
Feb 15, 2005, 08:42 AM
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portablevcb's Avatar
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Pete, I wasn't complaining about the size, really. I am happy with it and it now gives me two planes to get out when the slimer scale meets come around. When I printed that first profile it got me by surprise at how BIG it was

I agree with the rib numbers. I did a lot of head scratching on this one and concluded, as Peter did, than any less and it wouldn't looke right. I toyed with 'skeleton' ribs and decided to just go with what Pete had designed. I did wimp out on all the different versions of ribs. I cut a single pattern and 'hollowed' out much of the rib (you can see in the pics). So, I really didn't have a lot of excuses why it was so tedious. A long story I won't repeat here, but, I had several abortive rib cutting sessions before getting the hang of it.

Final method. Stack up a bunch of balsa (they are 1/20" instead of 1/16"). glue along the very top edges. Run through the scroll saw, cutting outline only. Separate pieces. Lay pattern on rib. Punch holes (sharpened stainless steel tubing, 1/2" and 1/4"). Cut spar slots. Cut to length as required.

charlie
Feb 15, 2005, 09:29 AM
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JIMA's Avatar
Morning Charlie,

I just got a copy of Peter's 52" Pup in the mail yesterday. I will be starting on it soon after finishing the Tommy. For power, I am planning on an AXI outrunner, the 2826-10. With 9 GP3300s and a 12x6 it should pull just under 25 amps. You may want to take a look at that setup. The AXI is a new higher torque model. If I remember right, Peter and Ian used a 12x6 on the N11 and SE5a.

Looking forward to your build. You will be paving the way for me as I get ready to start on the Pup.

Jim
Feb 15, 2005, 10:13 AM
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portablevcb's Avatar
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Jim,

I appreciate the torque of the AXI's. I just really like the sound of the belt drives. My only real complaint about brushless (especially outrunners) is that they don't make any noise I am self limiting to the 35A range. I thought about going to more voltage, but, wanted to be able to use these batteries in a smaller plane as well. The motor I have will go up to 600W so it will only be running at half of it's capacity. I guess I could go to 6s1p . I think I figured out that a scale prop size would be a 16"-17"! 13"-15" will give me a little more ground clearance than full scale.

I will probably install the Mag Mayhem at some point just to prove that a brushed setup will work OK. I already have a speed control in another plane that could be used and it fits the belt drive as well.

charlie
Feb 15, 2005, 10:23 AM
Single-task at best...
tim hooper's Avatar
Charlie,

This is some project you've embarked on!

I'll keep on eye on this one, if you don't mind....

tim
Feb 15, 2005, 10:40 AM
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portablevcb's Avatar
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Tim. I would be disappointed if you didn't! After all, it will be up to you to build it even better. I still keep in mind you still have a flying WACO

charlie
Feb 15, 2005, 12:22 PM
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St. Martin's Avatar
Beautiful wing structure, charlie. Love the Spad. Should roll pretty good.

Steve
Feb 15, 2005, 01:09 PM
Do believe I'd have to take a holiday after doing all those ribs, Charlie. What dedication. What a beautiful job!

Monty
Feb 15, 2005, 01:35 PM
Registered User
P_J_Glor's Avatar

Ribs


I am really impressed with all of those ribs. I had kind of arrived at your "outline only" method for multiple ribs with small differences -- especially after trying to do sheet metal templates with rib notches. I found it is easier -- and more accurate -- to group the ribs and stack and cut the spar notches after the outlines are cut.

Of course, probably the most accurate and simplest method is to send them all to the laser cutter, a la Pat Tritle!!!

Along those same lines, perhaps a "very short kit" of the wing parts alone would be a great seller. I have an old Spad VII Plan by Paul Palenek from Flying models, and the ribs have been very intimidating.

Pete G.


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