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Jun 25, 2019, 04:34 PM
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Vought XF5U "Flying Flapjack" for PETG or Carbon Fiber Filaments


Playing off of what I did with the rubber chicken, I've done the carbon pin together method on a slightly more complicated model.



Chicken for reference:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ments-Test-Bed

I plan for this plane to be primarily constructed from PETG, but the option is there to use carbon fiber impregnated filaments. Even the stuff that doesn't take to glue well. If I can print this thing with something light enough, it should be possible to sand it up, then fiberglass it and still come out okish on wing loading.

Some quick specs:

Wingspan (body): 33.45 in 850 mm
Wingspan (Tailerons: 46.46 in 1180 mm
Wing Area: 992 sq. in. 64 dm2
Estimated Print Weight: 2.7kg (Very Early Estimate, hopefully I can get this down some)
Estimated AUW: 4.8kg
Wing loading: 24.6 oz. / sq. ft. 75 g / dm2
WCL: 9.2

The AUW includes some 3520-6 720kv motors, and two 4500mah 4s batteries, servos, carbon fiber, ESC's, landing gear, wire, and some buffer. The wing loading is actually a bit better than the Northern Pike.











I'm working on this thing as fast as I can. Hopefully I'll be able to take one with me to Flite Fest in Ohio in a couple weeks. We'll see how fast I can finish things up, and get parts printing.
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Jun 25, 2019, 04:36 PM
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Post reserved for completed project
Jun 26, 2019, 12:04 AM
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Most of the little bits are either printing, or waiting their turn. All control surfaces, the cockpit, and the engine nacelles are done.

Only things left to draw are landing gear hardpoints, and a battery hatch. The rest is just lightening the internal supports on the main body, wing, whatever it is.
Jun 26, 2019, 03:59 AM
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Wao wao wao!
Jun 26, 2019, 09:25 AM
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stangrob's Avatar
Wow - impressive! And definitely not small! This puppy is 1/8th scale - nice!!!

When you talk about fiberglassing her, I assume you’re planning to reinforce the inside for strength, right? I’d hope the outside finish should be pretty good with maybe some minor filling and sanding.

Are you planning to install retracts or fixed gear? And what are you planning for props?

Sorry for so many questions - I have a few more but don’t want to be a pain

Rob
Jun 26, 2019, 09:33 AM
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Lynxman's Avatar
Stunning model. It has a lot if internal structure so it might be suitable for LW-PLA.
Jun 26, 2019, 10:01 AM
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localfiend's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangrob
Wow - impressive! And definitely not small! This puppy is 1/8th scale - nice!!!

When you talk about fiberglassing her, I assume youíre planning to reinforce the inside for strength, right? Iíd hope the outside finish should be pretty good with maybe some minor filling and sanding.

Are you planning to install retracts or fixed gear? And what are you planning for props?

Sorry for so many questions - I have a few more but donít want to be a pain

Rob
Questions are all good. It's why there's a thread after all.

I was talking about glassing the outside to get a perfectly smooth finish. The plane will be enormously strong just as it is. The shape is just nuts for strength. I've got a version of this that's a bit smaller made from foamboard.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...lying-Flapjack

For the one I plan to take to FF, I'll be using fixed gear. It was just too late of a start to find something so oddball at last minute. The plane has something like a 20 degree tilt on the gear, so it's very tall. The full scale model gear was telescoping. So I'll have to replicate that, or make giant gear doors for retracts.

Props will probably just be normal as well, at least for Flite Fest. Back home, I'll be able to print and carbon/epoxy cover custom 4 blade props.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynxman
Stunning model. It has a lot if internal structure so it might be suitable for LW-PLA.
That's what I was thinking when I started drawing. If I could trust it wouldn't melt on me, it'd be. A great choice for this plane, as you could glass and paint, and come out ahead on weight. I've got a roll ordered to do some tests with. I also need to find one of the lighter carbon fiber infused filaments to try.
Jun 26, 2019, 10:43 AM
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stangrob's Avatar
Thanks for the info! I've been playing with an XF5U for some time now and appreciate the uniqueness of this plane

The gear is fun - if you're going with the telescoping design it'll be interesting to see how you do that. The original seemed to have a hydraulic cylinder to do the compression, but naturally at this scale you have lots of other options. I think they compressed the oleo to get it to fit. At this scale the doors are still more than 12" long so they're long and skinny.

I asked about the fiberglassing because I'd think you'd still be better off using a filler primer and do a lot of sanding versus adding the glass to the exterior. Right now you have nice edges where the nacelles join the wing (I'm assuming you're printing the wing and nacelles together) - adding the glass might diminish that detail.

I'll be curious to see how you split up the wing to fit on your printer - assuming a typical build space (nominally 9"x9"x8") you'd have a lot of pieces to assemble to get the full wing. I know you'll share this soon but I can't help but wonder

Rob
Jun 26, 2019, 02:06 PM
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localfiend's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangrob
Thanks for the info! I've been playing with an XF5U for some time now and appreciate the uniqueness of this plane

The gear is fun - if you're going with the telescoping design it'll be interesting to see how you do that. The original seemed to have a hydraulic cylinder to do the compression, but naturally at this scale you have lots of other options. I think they compressed the oleo to get it to fit. At this scale the doors are still more than 12" long so they're long and skinny.

I asked about the fiberglassing because I'd think you'd still be better off using a filler primer and do a lot of sanding versus adding the glass to the exterior. Right now you have nice edges where the nacelles join the wing (I'm assuming you're printing the wing and nacelles together) - adding the glass might diminish that detail.

I'll be curious to see how you split up the wing to fit on your printer - assuming a typical build space (nominally 9"x9"x8") you'd have a lot of pieces to assemble to get the full wing. I know you'll share this soon but I can't help but wonder

Rob
The glassing might be needed depending on the material. All theoretical at the moment of course. I still need to get some of that foaming pla, and some carbon stuff to do a bunch of testing. Also, if I do bother with glassing one, I might use my bigger printer Creality 400x400x400 and up the nozzle size and plane size by 25 to 50%.

The nacelles have to be printed separately, but they'll slip right over the wing, and of course, be pinned on with carbon fiber. Should be pretty clean. Not really a better way to do it thin wall.

If you look at the pictures in the first post closely you'll see all the dividing lines where I sliced it into printer sized chunks. Also, here's a picture of all the parts around a standard Prusa MK2S print bed (210x250x200mm). The parts of the plane are designed to be printing starting with the "wing" root as the bottom. The leading edge is too blunt to allow for the other possible orientation, it would just print terribly that way.
Jun 26, 2019, 03:01 PM
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Just thought I'd add a pic of some finished parts. Need to do some tweaking to them, but stuff is working out well overall.
Jun 26, 2019, 03:50 PM
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stangrob's Avatar
I've got to say - from your pic those parts look great. Very nice work!

Who's slicer are you using? The rafts are interesting in their layout - Simplify3D basically extends the footprint but this looks different.

I noticed on your CAD renderings that you're using the flaps - I'm assuming as elevators. If so did you find that the ailevators weren't effective enough based on your dollar foam versions that the extra elevator was needed?

Lastly, I must admit I like how you've set up the control surfaces - nice and simple and very effective. When I was building mine I had all of the control horns in the wing, but that was a lot of work and your design will work great

Rob
Jun 26, 2019, 05:08 PM
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localfiend's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangrob
I've got to say - from your pic those parts look great. Very nice work!

Who's slicer are you using? The rafts are interesting in their layout - Simplify3D basically extends the footprint but this looks different.

I noticed on your CAD renderings that you're using the flaps - I'm assuming as elevators. If so did you find that the ailevators weren't effective enough based on your dollar foam versions that the extra elevator was needed?

Lastly, I must admit I like how you've set up the control surfaces - nice and simple and very effective. When I was building mine I had all of the control horns in the wing, but that was a lot of work and your design will work great

Rob
The rafts are just a .2mm tall circle STL file. I use simplify3d. The circles are just put on the build plate by hand. Let's me selectively add a thick brim where needed. Better adhesion, and less trimming. Also useful for adding bottom layers to only some areas, like where servo horns need reinforcement.

Yeah, the rear stability flaps are setup as elevators, or elevons. When using a full flying ailevator, they're not needed for normal flight, however, I thought they might come in handy for extra elevator at really slow landing speeds. Maybe they'll be useful for their original purpose as well. They were easy to add.

I thought about doing internal linkages, but this will be easier to service, and visually verify that everything is working as it should.
Jun 27, 2019, 07:23 AM
Prefectionist
I am anxiously and excitedly awaiting the STL's for this.
I was planning on building your DTF version of this plane but man, the 3dprint version looks great already.

Fantastic job and fantastic designs.
Jun 27, 2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creapyd
I am anxiously and excitedly awaiting the STL's for this.
I was planning on building your DTF version of this plane but man, the 3dprint version looks great already.

Fantastic job and fantastic designs.
Thanks man.


Slowly getting stuff printed. I will have more blue filament rolls tomorrow so I can have more printers going at once. Which is good, cause that big piece is a 17 hour print I need to do twice.
Jun 27, 2019, 04:00 PM
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stangrob's Avatar
Localfiend,

Out of curiosity are you thinking of making the STLs available at a later date? I've been playing with some 3D models of the Skimmer in Fusion360 but you've done such a nice job that it almost seems redundant (better to focus on something else unique ).

Rob

PS: I have to admit - the Shapeoko XXL that I'm now using for cutting my models is directly attributable to the work you were doing with your dollar tree XF5U when you first started work on that. It's great having the ability to do both additive and subtractive digital fabrication


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