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Sep 12, 2019, 09:41 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gameengineer
Didnt do much lately except added wood glue to joints. I apply it with the brush and wipe off as much as I can with my finger or q-tip. I know excess glue adds weight. ...
You might have posted this already so sorry if that's the case, but what type of glue are you using? As you apply with a brush and can wipe off the excess I take it that it's not CA, so is it aliphatic resin such as Titebond? That's what I prefer myself, as I was used to it from before I started building models and I know how strong it is, plus it's so easy to use, quick setting and doesn't make you sick.

Just for interest's sake, I weighed a wing before and after gluing a series of parts, I forget but I think it was either shear webs or cap strips. Then I weighed again once it'd had a full 24 hours to cure. So in the end I added 8g of glue wet, which finally dried out to about 1g... 7g was water I guess, so it evaporated, leaving a super strong bond for a weight penalty of about 1 whole gram. That's pretty good!
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Sep 12, 2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernardW
You might have posted this already so sorry if that's the case, but what type of glue are you using? As you apply with a brush and can wipe off the excess I take it that it's not CA, so is it aliphatic resin such as Titebond? That's what I prefer myself, as I was used to it from before I started building models and I know how strong it is, plus it's so easy to use, quick setting and doesn't make you sick.

Just for interest's sake, I weighed a wing before and after gluing a series of parts, I forget but I think it was either shear webs or cap strips. Then I weighed again once it'd had a full 24 hours to cure. So in the end I added 8g of glue wet, which finally dried out to about 1g... 7g was water I guess, so it evaporated, leaving a super strong bond for a weight penalty of about 1 whole gram. That's pretty good!
Titebond II for the wood glue and 15 or 30 min epoxy for the things that need to be strong and CA for some other thing but I don' t use it much. I use 30 min epoxy when I want to take time to penetrate. Yep I apply the wood glue , let it sit a few seconds and wipe off with my finger the excess if I can reach it or with a Q-tip if not. The Q-tip wipes more off so I try to avoid using it. So I mainly try to use titebond.

When I sheeted the right wing just recently I didn't have enough flexible weight so keeping the edge that met with the LE down while holding down the rest of the sheet was difficult. I used titebond primarily to glue it to the structure. I managed to do it by putting my alum angle bar near the front and using all the ammo boxes and mallets I had! I've since ordered and have received sand bags. These are used to hold lighting tripods down and can hold up to 20 lbs of sand each! I would probably crush the model so I'll try to keep them down below 10 pounds.

I like the specs on the wood glue where most is water and adds little weight. Nice experiment thanks for sharing the results. Makes me feel better when using wood glue because I wasn't sure if it added too much weight.

When I started back on building I decided to lay off the CA as much as I can because the fumes bother me and I have had eye problems and don't know exactly if the fumes can hurt my retina's. I've had one detach a few years ago and lost vision in the center due to healing issues after they repaired it. Yeah depth perception is a pain especially when working up close!

I still have to sheet the bottoms of both wing halves after epoxying them together so I was thinking of CA'ing the sheet to the back of the LE and then using wood glue for the rest. That way the front curl will be held tightly this time. I tried wetting the front edge before but I had to go around my tape holding the front. Open to suggestions on better ways of D-tube sheeting?
Last edited by Gameengineer; Sep 12, 2019 at 11:39 AM.
Sep 12, 2019, 01:34 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gameengineer
Titebond II for the wood glue and 15 or 30 min epoxy for the things that need to be strong and CA for some other thing but I don' t use it much. I use 30 min epoxy when I want to take time to penetrate. Yep I apply the wood glue , let it sit a few seconds and wipe off with my finger the excess if I can reach it or with a Q-tip if not. The Q-tip wipes more off so I try to avoid using it. So I mainly try to use titebond.

When I sheeted the right wing just recently I didn't have enough flexible weight so keeping the edge that met with the LE down while holding down the rest of the sheet was difficult. I used titebond primarily to glue it to the structure. I managed to do it by putting my alum angle bar near the front and using all the ammo boxes and mallets I had! I've since ordered and have received sand bags. These are used to hold lighting tripods down and can hold up to 20 lbs of sand each! I would probably crush the model so I'll try to keep them down below 10 pounds.

I like the specs on the wood glue where most is water and adds little weight. Nice experiment thanks for sharing the results. Makes me feel better when using wood glue because I wasn't sure if it added too much weight.

When I started back on building I decided to lay off the CA as much as I can because the fumes bother me and I have had eye problems and don't know exactly if the fumes can hurt my retina's. I've had one detach a few years ago and lost vision in the center due to healing issues after they repaired it. Yeah depth perception is a pain especially when working up close!

I still have to sheet the bottoms of both wing halves after epoxying them together so I was thinking of CA'ing the sheet to the back of the LE and then using wood glue for the rest. That way the front curl will be held tightly this time. I tried wetting the front edge before but I had to go around my tape holding the front. Open to suggestions on better ways of D-tube sheeting?

Do you know the trick of simply wetting the whole outside surface? That way it will warp away from the wet side, and it tends to give a nice even curve.. Someone gave me that tip when I was building my first model (RCM Trainer 60 but I warn you, it's VERY long!) and it worked a treat, the balsa bent almost all the way down to the ribs and was easily flexible enough to make the last bit of the curve with nothing more than some weights to hold it while the glue set. I've only used Original Titebond so I don't know how it compares to Mk II for drying/bonding time, but I find that after about 25 minutes, it's strong enough that you don't need to worry too much about bracing it or weighing it down.
As to that your sandbags are a good way to go. I've got smaller ones, cloth bags filled with aquarium gravel, so unlike sand they won't make a mess if they leak. They're in 12 x 6" bags and I just weighed one, right on 1.5kg so about 3.3 lb. They work very well, and if I need more weight just stack on more bags. They can also be smooshed into shape to fit nearly anywhere, plus I've got some half-sized ones 6 x 6" and half the weight.
I remember sheeting the D-tube of that wing, I just glued the front edge down against the back of the LE and about the first 5 or 6mm, about 1/4", of the ribs where they still were very close to the sheet without curving it. I then used a wet sponge to dampen the top of the sheet, and sure enough it soon curved nicely down toward the ribs. The fibres expand on the wet side, making the curve. I'd used a 5mL syringe with a long tip, called a drawing-up tip, like a very heavy-gauge needle but without the sharp point, to apply Titebond to the top edge of the ribs. You get good control over placement and can put a light coating of glue without excess. One suggestion, instead of a Q-tip, I use a scrap of thin flat balsa to scrape off excess glue, it works well. A Q-tip works but being rounded it can make a bit of a fillet of glue, unlike the square corner of a piece of balsa. Then I might use the corner of a thin damp sponge to clean up the last of it.
Once that sheet had curved it was pretty close to the ribs near the spar, I just added glue along the spar where that sheet should connect, and weighed it down with gravel bags. I'd have cleaned up any excess as above. I folded a towel over on itself to make a soft support for the wing so it was supported evenly, then put the weights on top. I think I used a "spreader", a long flat stick of wood, so the weight was directed mostly onto the glue line. I gave it a long time to be sure it'd set before removing the weights, but it'd bonded perfectly.
I remember trying a different method somewhere, maybe it was for the other wing panel or maybe it was on the next build. I did the same trick wetting the sheet, but before adding weight I bound it to the wing frame with elastic. The supermarket had 2 meter long, 12mm wide (1/2") elastic, very cheap, I've used that many times building models to apply some force on a glue joint while it sets... very helpful. I wrapped it through the gap between 2 ribs, then over the sheet, around the LE and under the next sheet, then up through the next gap between ribs. I'm sure I would have used the spreader-bar for this. I was mostly concerned with leaving no gaps between the ribs and the D-tube sheets.
As far as CA for attaching the edge of the sheet to the LE, I'd say Titebond is just as strong once cured. I did it in 2 stages, first the front edge of the sheet to the LE and let it fully cure, at least 12 hours. I'd have no qualms by then bending the sheet and relying on the glue to hold it, but wetting the sheet so it curves greatly reduces the strain on that edge while attaching it to the ribs.
Using the syringe to apply the glue works well. I still smooth the layer with a finger, but I usually don't have to remove much excess, I just kind of drag my finger along the *edge* of the glue line. It sometimes wants to settle into little beads of glue and not a continuous line. But a finger will fix that. The same works for cap strips - glue the top edge, let it set, then syringe glue onto the tops of the ribs and bend the caps with a spreader and some weight. Don't wet it here as it will curve across the grain, not along it, the grain orientation is wrong for that.

A syringe with either a drawing up tip is worth trying, or if you can't get that then a real "horse needle", as big a gauge as you can get. I prefer 5mL syringes but 3's will do. I use a bit of masking tap over the open end so the glue inside doesn't dry and block it up, it'll be alright for at least 30 minutes. Titebond being water-based, you can clean the tip and syringe with hot water. It seems best to dismantle the syringe and dry the rubber bung, or it'll end up going soft and won't stay attached to the plunger. I might try a bit of epoxy to hold the bung in place.
Well that's all my best Titebond tips, hope they help. But especially wetting those D-tube sheets to make them curve might help... sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know but it sounds to me like the solution to what you're trying to do, unless you've already found a reason it won't work. Best of luck.
EDIT - I went through the Trainer 60 build, man that thing is WAY too long... anyway start at page 108 and you'll see photos of the above. Post 288, then the next few pages and you'll see how it worked for me. That wing turned out very stiff for its light weight, I put it down to good gap-free contact between all the ribs and the D-tube sheets. A D-tube structure with cap-strips and shear webs between the spars is an inherently strong and stiff design, very efficient. The breakthrough for me was learning about wetting the sheets first so they naturally curved to fit almost right down to the ribs, so they only needed a little help from the weights. With accurate ribs and the wing frame being straight the underside of that sheet had no problem making full contact.
Sep 12, 2019, 02:17 PM
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Wow what a great response! I know about wetting the sheet but once wet you can't use tape. I didn't have enough weights to hold the sheet down so I had no choice but to tape the LE edge of the sheet. I thought of CA'ing the LE only because it was instant bond and I would not have to hold it down when I pressed the rest of the sheet to the ribs where I also apply titebond.

I know there's a debate with titebond and titebond II. I just grabbed the first titebond from Home Depot I saw and its worked so far. But if Titebond I (red labeling ) works better for building i'm all ears (erm, eyes).

I've read about using syringes too, probably from you in other posts! Just haven't picked any up yet. I only have those really small cat medicine syringes. I've tried and it didn't work. Its like trying to suck a camel through a garden hose!

I looked for smaller sand bags but only found corn hole game bags which could work I guess but these were made for sand... strong material and coated on the inside and even double zippered. They are massive though and doubled up which I didn't like. I am going to cut the handle strap in the middle that joins two bags.

Ok so one of your sheeting methods talks about what I was thinking of doing but you just used wood glue instead of CA. You glue the front edge sheet to the LE... let dry... then glue up the ribs, wet down the sheet, conform and weigh down. All of this sound like you aren't using tape (and you can't unless you wet the underside of the sheet. And if you do that the glue probably won't bond right. Your method also applies the glue on ribs with a syringe with a long needle. That had crossed my mind, what was a good way to get the glue down there onto the ribs while the front of the sheet was being glued down. Tight space under that sheet now. Hence my thought of applying the wood glue before attaching the sheet at all. Then once the glue is down, place the sheet, apply CA for instant bond (no need to hold it against the LE now) and then wet the sheet and pull down with weights. The wood glue has a longer drying time so that gives me enough time to apply it and get the sheet CA'd and wetted. I don't know, that's just what I thought of doing. I will try your way too. I'm always looking for the best way for me to do this.

I mentioned it before but my right wing is much better than my left wing! Its been years since I built anything and I'm learning new things from others like you that I didn't have back then. Back then I just made it up as I went not really seeing how others do things.

EDIT: Been reading your Trainer 60 build log. I like the Popsicle stick to rib caps thing. I just laid a flexible book over them and added my weights on top of that but the sticks eliminate the need for the book (and wax paper).
I wasn't a fan of T-pins to hold down the LE of the sheet, though. I'm sure that works but I want to reduce or eliminate the need to fill later on. You didn't mention the pins in your post above so I'm guessing you don't do that now.

And a comment on the D-tube, yeah I read about using them in a lot of build logs so I knew they were good. I also know this plane flies fine without them and there are two of them flown by a club member who has the 60 and 120 versions of the 4* and his do not have the D-tubes.
Frankly I just wanted to do it. I know I've gotten flak here for wanting to do mods and I've taken some advise to heart and others under advisement.
Last edited by Gameengineer; Sep 12, 2019 at 02:33 PM.
Sep 12, 2019, 03:02 PM
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Balsaworkbench's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gameengineer
I wasn't a fan of T-pins to hold down the LE of the sheet, though. I'm sure that works but I want to reduce or eliminate the need to fill later on.
Pin holes in balsa will disappear if spritzed with water. Another neat trick for stubborn holes, as well as dents, is to apply some water, then apply a hot iron for just a second. No more holes or dents.

Don't sand wet balsa. That's a disaster.
Sep 12, 2019, 04:09 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
Building that Trainer 60 I had wonderful input from a lot of really experienced people, just look at some of the names contributing! That's what we didn't have pre-internet I guess, but I can't imagine that trainer would have been even half as good if I built it without that help.

Sounds like you're on the right track anyway. At the time I would have wet the sheet and let it curve, that takes some time, before adding glue to the ribs. Titebond gives you some working time, but it must have taken a good 15 or 20 minutes before that sheet had curved enough to use. Plus, it's fiddly even with the syringe applying glue to all the ribs, so there goes at least another 5 minutes. I think the practical working time is probably about ten minutes. So yes definitely use a long-ish needle or tip with your syringe, it's much easier and faster for those jobs where you've got difficult access. Over time a syringe with tip has proven to be such a handy tool for applying glue, I've even found it useful for other tasks outside of model building.
TB 1 vs TB 2, I just stick to Original because that's all there was when I started using it, it's what I know and it's cheaper too. I figure the main difference is that 2 is water-resistant for exterior use, but our models' glue joints should never be exposed to enough water to worry about... if they are, you've got bigger problems first!

My sister made my gravel bags for me as she sews and is set up for it. Any durable cloth should do. Mine are about the size of a standard school pencil case... not as soft and pliable as cloth, but easy to get and for most jobs they're probably be fine. I've also heard of people using stacks of magazines, as they conform themselves nicely to a wing, and on top of that you could then use anything for weights. The magazines help spread the load evenly. By the way I used popsicle sticks as spreaders many times on that build, I got a pack of something like 250 or 500 of them for a few bucks, I've still got over half of them left in the bag! Extremely handy, and by always clamping EVERY joint, and paying attention to spreading the clamping force with those or similar, I'm sure I got a better, stronger model. Positive pressure on the joints while the glue sets makes a big difference - that's when wood glue gets as strong as CA, epoxy etc. I've tested them and certainly Titebond is strong - the wood breaks before the glue joint does.

Clearly you can see how it would work, just bear in mind you can't wet the *under*-side of the D-tube sheets, as then it will curve the wrong way, outwards away from the wing. The curving works by swelling the fibres - you wet the side that you want to be convex. So yes I did glue the front edge down first, the wet it, but it occurs to me now, maybe you could wet and curve the wood OFF the model first. You'd apply glue along the LE where it will meet the sheeting, and on the tops of the ribs, then place the now-curved sheet over that. But I see some problems... first, remember mine did not curve all the way down to the ribs, so you still really need a way to fix that front sheet edge to the LE first. Then it's glue the tops of the ribs and finish bending that sheet down to the spar. Also, once the wood dries, I think it's going to end up flat again, or nearly so, so you'd have to stick it on before that happens. Remember that the sheet should also wind up covering part or all of the spar, and you'll have to glue that now too as once it's stuck to the ribs, you can't get glue in under it.

As you say it could be done with CA but I didn't attempt that, and I certainly had no problem using wood glue. BTW truing up that edge with a long sander of some sort, or using a long straight-edge and blade to make sure it's dead straight, would be a good move first, to help eliminate any small gaps which are simply weak spots in the join. Also you're right that I didn't use tape. When gluing to the ribs the underside of the sheet will still be dry, you don't totally drench the top side but just make it damp with a wet cloth or sponge... try to get it evenly damp all over. Tape has no hope of sticking to wet balsa, but I've actually found this type of wood glue is OK with it, though it does thin it out.
One idea, though I didn't try this, you could use tape to hold the sheet to the LE piece while that first glue run sets. See the 2nd and 4th photos in post #288 of the trainer build, with the sheet stuck to the LE but not curved yet. That's where you could use tape instead of all those pins. But you have to be sure it stays put and doesn't start to sag, coz if it does then it means that front edge is coming up and away from the LE. It'd probably be enough to just prop up the back of the sheet with some scraps so it stays put.
I'm all for trying mod's and new ideas, if I can offer anything that helps you make those work then I say go for it. That Ugly Stik is nothing *but* mod's to the original design... all I've kept is the silhouette, the only way it's a Stik is in its outline. The structures are all made up as I went along and they're all things I just wanted to try. The rear is a stick-built truss, it's got a ply "strong box" core with balsa sheet on top for the forward fuselage, and the wing is D-tube, shear webs and cap strips just like the trainer since I was so happy with that. The big news though is, no LE member. The D-tube is a continuous sheet (3 pieces edge-glued), soaked in ammonia and water for flexibility, then rolled on a former to the airfoil shape. Then it's going to glue in one piece to the ribs and wrap all the way around from the top to bottom spar. I'll dig up some photos for you
EDIT - this is the Stik build log, have a look at posts 333, 340 on page 8, 351 on p7, 432 and 433 on p2, and my first experiment with it way back in post 3.
BTW, soaking that skin right through is not the way to go for your project here... it really needs a former to mould them to the finished shape so it dries and stays in that shape. All you want to do here is wet one side only.
I agree I'd be looking for a way to avoid those pins, but it was my first build and I was still feeling my way. There's the tape idea (I hadn't considered tape there till you mentioned it, good call!), and other possibilities. How about tacking it at each end with a drop of CA, just to hold it in place while a line of wood glue sets. Again you'd have to prop it in place but I think that applies no matter what glue you choose. Elastic, or rubber bands, might have potential too. The whole idea is to get some positive clamping pressure on every glue joint at least until it has reached a good partial bond strength. It helps eliminate gaps, and of course they are the weak spots.
To get the best bond strength you need a good, gap-free fit and glue coverage, not counting on it to fill gaps. Pressure makes a big difference too, so I always clamp. I like to do a dry run first before applying any glue to check the fit. It'll give you a strong and light wing, the D-tube will add some weight by the extra sheeting but within reason. It'll be the equivalent of maybe 2 or 3 sheets worth of balsa, I'd guess about 100g / 1/4lb. Plenty of 4-stars will waste more weight than that on much less important areas. I say go for it! I can also tell you that my wing built the same way is rugged and has survived some amazing knocks and accidents with very little damage. Wait till it's all glued up and covered and try twisting it and see what happens, the D-tube works!
Last edited by BernardW; Sep 12, 2019 at 04:35 PM.
Sep 12, 2019, 04:15 PM
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Another way to make stiff balsa conform to a curved shape is to soak it through, then tie it to a bottle or other appropriate shape with rubber bands, and let it dry. When removed it will be stiff and curved. See if you can find a mold that's shaped sort of like your wing ribs for this operation.

When it's dry, if you did it right, it should fit the wing easily and can be installed with CA or your favorite type of glue without any concern about splitting.
Sep 12, 2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsaworkbench
Another way to make stiff balsa conform to a curved shape is to soak it through, then tie it to a bottle or other appropriate shape with rubber bands, and let it dry. When removed it will be stiff and curved.
This what I do. Give the balsa a bath and tape or rubberband it to soup or veggie cans of the appropriate curvature. Always done this for cowl tops.
Sep 12, 2019, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsaworkbench
Pin holes in balsa will disappear if spritzed with water. Another neat trick for stubborn holes, as well as dents, is to apply some water, then apply a hot iron for just a second. No more holes or dents.

Don't sand wet balsa. That's a disaster.
What? Really? Nice to know! I knew about the dent trick but not about closing pin holes.
Sep 12, 2019, 05:54 PM
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Appreciate all the comments and Bernard, you could write a builders manual! Thanks for taking the time to write all the details. Too many things to comment back on but on a couple of things, I found that I need to get that wing down onto the flat table with gluing almost anything. I lifted the left wing to clamp the TE and paid for it dearly. I had a big bow in the TE. I did sort of fix it by bending it back, further than the original bow and spritzing the top and bottom of the middle section with water. It had a 1/4" bow lift on both ends! I managed to get it down to 1/16th or close to it. I had a seasoned flier at the field say I may not have noticed even the bad bow unless i was flying at 200mph! It just looked bad and I'm a perfectionist so I had to fix it. I almost scrapped the wing to buy another one from Sig. But its okay-ish now.
The right wing is almost perfectly straight mainlyi because I did things much better including weighing it down whenever I glued almost anything (spars, sheeting).

I'm also not good at applying a single, edge glued sheet to the whole wing. I did that years ago with a Top Flite P51 that is still being worked on.

EDIT:
Quote:
Plenty of 4-stars will waste more weight than that on much less important areas. I say go for it! I can also tell you that my wing built the same way is rugged and has survived some amazing knocks and accidents with very little damage. Wait till it's all glued up and covered and try twisting it and see what happens, the D-tube works!
The only thing that gave me pause with th eD-tube was possibly losing the float-i-ness of the plane. Like I said a club member has two sizes of them and both float really well, almost too well sometimes. He's struggled to land when there was some wind because it didn't want to stop floating! I plan on using most of the hardware except the nyrods are going. The metal wire will add some weight but hopefully not too much. I want to try to keep the final weight to within a pound of the weight called out which I think is 7-8 lbs. We'll see I guess.

I'll be getting both halves epoxied tonight hopefully. I've got an issue in the center where there's a gap. The left wing inner rib is curved a bit. Not flat. It is angled correctly for the 2 deg dihedral though. I need to position both wing halves so the LE is straight and both wings are parallel and then see what I need to do. I'll be adding "filler" wood between so there isn't a gap between ribs. I think I need solid wood to wood between both inner ribs.
Last edited by Gameengineer; Sep 12, 2019 at 06:13 PM.
Sep 13, 2019, 09:43 AM
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After more sanding and fitting the wings together the gap wasn't as bad. There is about a 1/32 gap near the LE. I am going to custom fit a small slice of 1/32 sheeting in there and sand to taper it back.

I epoxied the hard wood wing joiner to one side and worked more on the servo bay for right wing. I test fit it dry first and made sure not to install it upside down! (the wing in the photos is upside down)

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Sep 13, 2019, 10:52 AM
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I had a job of it shaping the leading edge of the Senior at 80" but a few strokes of a small planer and some jusdicious sanding, it came out fine. I wanted to buy a small spoke shave but couldn't find one in the local hardware stores anymore. I guess the demand for them is not what they used to be.
I have a couple 22" T bar sanders, one from GP and another made by ???? I have the leading edge sander but don't use it very often as it always seems to be the wrong shape.
Build a few Seniors and Sernoritas and you'll gain some experience in shaping leading edges.
I've also built two 4*60 and a 4*40.
Sep 13, 2019, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyroger
I had a job of it shaping the leading edge of the Senior at 80" but a few strokes of a small planer and some jusdicious sanding, it came out fine. I wanted to buy a small spoke shave but couldn't find one in the local hardware stores anymore. I guess the demand for them is not what they used to be.
I have a couple 22" T bar sanders, one from GP and another made by ???? I have the leading edge sander but don't use it very often as it always seems to be the wrong shape.
Build a few Seniors and Sernoritas and you'll gain some experience in shaping leading edges.
I've also built two 4*60 and a 4*40.
Thanks!
I shaped the LE last night with an 11" GP bar with 220. It turned out ok, similar to the factory shaped one. The factory LE profile shape was not symmetrical but mine was in the end. We'll see how much that affects the flight. To account for the D-tube mod I couldn't use the factory LE because it was flush with the top and bottom of the ribs. I used 3/8" square stock which gave me roughly 1/16th top and bottom to fit the 1/16 balsa sheeting. So I had to shape the square stock from a point to curve.

I'm really enjoying the build and the great fit the parts have. I can see myself building maybe the 4* 40 in the future and converting it to electric.
Sep 21, 2019, 05:39 PM
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Starting on the re-build of the left wing. Didn't like how the left + right wing fit together and I made some mistakes on the first wing during the build.
My sand bags arrived too so I got them prepared. I bought lighting sanding bags made of thick canvas material with double zippers. They came in connected pairs with a metal bar with handle in between them. I cut the center handle out and had them sewn up by my tailor friend. I made six bags and with the sand they come in at about 6.5 to 7 pounds each. Separate bags gives more control plus the center metal bar may have damaged wood. Very happy how they turned out. They came with six double bags so technically I still have 4 more individual bags but I think six is enough for now.

I used regular playground sand from Home Depot. 50lb was $6. I compared that with other options like aquarium sand at $20 per 20 pound bag was the cheapest I could find at my local pet store. Yeah sand will do.

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Oct 01, 2019, 05:29 PM
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Just a quick update. Relatives in town so once again didn't do much but I did manage to get the left wing re-build started. I really like those new sand bags. 6 pounds each feels a little heavy but they worked in this case.

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(that's Zoe my daughters new kitty. Just got her last week from a shelter. She's cute but does like to walk on the wood when I'm working!)


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