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Jun 18, 2019, 10:51 AM
Registered User
Khan's Avatar
Thread OP
Idea

Gyroid infill for wings


Hi guys !

Recently, I had to work with a gyroid surface at work, and to give a better understanding to my colleagues and I, I printed a cube of gyroid infill (no walls). I was struck by how light it was, for the perceived volume. And even more by its stiffness.

So I tried something : print a wing section from my Pilatus, replacing the carefully designed "diamond" infill that you see in most 3D printed planes by Cura's Gyroid infill, with a period of 15mm.

In the end, the part which weighed 18g with my reinforcement, ended at just under 20g (the scale was hesitating between 19 and 20g) with gyroid infill. Yes it's heavier, but it's in fact waaaaay stiffer. Diamond reinforcement shows a little creasing in the middle, whereas Gyroid holds a perfect curve, and it doesn't crackle when you press on the wing.

I'm going to experiment a little more to decrease the weight by 2 means :
  • Increase the gyroid period
  • Change the infill thickness to 0,3mm instead of 0,4mm (I might even print the whole part at 0,3mm...)

I'll keep you posted, but I wanted to share these first findings, as I see that there's some experimentation going on with LW-PLA...
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Jun 18, 2019, 02:00 PM
My planes plow into the field
farmertom's Avatar
I have heard of Gyroid. Great to see people looking for better ways of doing things!

I have many questions.
1) Where/how did you generate the .stl file for the infill?
2) Can you share that?
3) How do you think this would work with the LW-PLA filament?
4) Does this infill take mush longer to print?
5) do you have a photo to share?

thanks....
Jun 18, 2019, 02:37 PM
My planes plow into the field
farmertom's Avatar
Well I answered some of my own questions.
I found a sample on thingiverse. Just search on Gyroid.....
Attached is a photo of sample.
I imported the file into Rhino and made a block of 5x5x5 samples. Boy, that is very point intensive and it slowed my computer way down... time for a super computer for me.

I would like to see some samples with a larger period....
Jun 18, 2019, 03:59 PM
Registered User
Breitlingwings's Avatar
You don't need to import anything, just make a hollow structure and let the slicer make the gyroid infill.
Jun 18, 2019, 04:41 PM
Registered User
Khan's Avatar
Thread OP
Exactly, here's a screenshot of my wing section in Cura with 18mm period, and a few pics.
And for your other questions:
  • It doesn't take any longer than other reinforcements to print.
  • I think that with LW PLA, as the gyroid infill has an almost isotropic strengh, the parts would behave more closely like foam. You would still need stringers for high aspect ratio parts.
Another feature is that with an infill that goes all the way across the part, there are fewer retractions.
Jun 18, 2019, 05:15 PM
My planes plow into the field
farmertom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breitlingwings
You don't need to import anything, just make a hollow structure and let the slicer make the gyroid infill.
well darn, I don't see Gyroid infill in Simplify3D, unless I just missed it..need to look into it.
Jun 18, 2019, 05:45 PM
Registered User
Lynxman's Avatar
I'd love it if my cad software could compute loads and calculate the optimal internal structure, like this, for example, but with FDM printing in mind:
http://www.topopt.mek.dtu.dk/

I found it through a norwegian article, which you can probably translate with google, thought the pictures say a lot about the subject:
https://www.tu.no/artikler/gjennombr...yvingen/409039
Jun 18, 2019, 07:27 PM
Registered User
hawaiianspork226's Avatar
so a roughly 10% weight increase at that density of infill (15mm period)... doesnt seem like too much of a penalty to pay for saving LOTS of design time on an "engineered" internal reinforcement structure...

would be interesting to "gut" a 3D lab print plane of its internal structure and print the parts using this method... i wonder if the parts could be aligned carefully enough with the build platform in Cura so that the pattern repeats consistently enough part to part such that when bonded together, the internal structures are lined up and providing strength...

very interesting. thanks for sharing!

-david
Jun 19, 2019, 02:57 AM
Registered User
Khan's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynxman
I'd love it if my cad software could compute loads and calculate the optimal internal structure, like this, for example, but with FDM printing in mind:
http://www.topopt.mek.dtu.dk/

I found it through a norwegian article, which you can probably translate with google, thought the pictures say a lot about the subject:
https://www.tu.no/artikler/gjennombr...yvingen/409039
Topology Optimization, the holy grail of CAD, FEA and FDM gathering
I do a little of it at work, and we're watching closely the progress, but for us hobbyists, IMHO it's still a longshot before we can do anything relevant in the matter because, for topolology optimization to yield useful results you need :
  • Representative FEA load cases. While we can estimate the aerodynamic forces on a wing, all other load cases during construction, handling, landing and such are uncalculable, yet they will be significant.
  • Consistent Material Properties. Every filament, every printer, every process (temperature, part cooling, layer height...) has an impact on material strength. If you assume "safe" properties and lower the material characteristics in your FEA analysis, then the Topology Optimization module will have to keep more material to bear the loads, destroying the initial purpose of the optimization.
But yeah, it would be awesome !


Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiianspork226
so a roughly 10% weight increase at that density of infill (15mm period)... doesnt seem like too much of a penalty to pay for saving LOTS of design time on an "engineered" internal reinforcement structure...

would be interesting to "gut" a 3D lab print plane of its internal structure and print the parts using this method... i wonder if the parts could be aligned carefully enough with the build platform in Cura so that the pattern repeats consistently enough part to part such that when bonded together, the internal structures are lined up and providing strength...

very interesting. thanks for sharing!

-david
Actually, I think that on some existing designs, there would be no weight penalty at all. I'm comparing with my own part which is already quite light (single wall reinforcement, large diamond pattern).
And I was thinking the same as you : I should definitely try "emptying" a 3DLabPrint Part and re-filling it with gyroid. I'll keep you posted.
And you could totally align the infill between parts. You could do it visually, or calculate the position (and/or infill XY offset) of the parts on the build plate, base on their XYZ dimensions and gyroid period.
Jun 27, 2019, 04:08 PM
Registered User
Khan's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi everyone !

Here's something : I took 3DLab Print's Spitfire wing test part from thingiverse, and stripped it from its reinforcement.
I defined a gyroid infill with a period of 16mm, and it gave me the same calculated weight as the original reinforcement (See pictures). And it prints 25 min faster !
Now I haven't tried actually printing the parts, but I'd bet the gyroid infill will will be as strong, if not stronger than the original structure.
I've attached the .3MF and .STL files if someone wants to give it a shot. And how about LW-PLA ? Could someone spare a few grams to see how it performs ?
Jun 27, 2019, 07:57 PM
Registered User
hawaiianspork226's Avatar
If I have time when I get home I'll try and give it a shot printing.

I have some LW-PLA but I have not yet tried to print with it. If I print it I'll just use regular PLA for now, then maybe work on LW-PLA a bit in the next few weeks. Were a bit busy... Just had our first baby

-david

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan
Hi everyone !

Here's something : I took 3DLab Print's Spitfire wing test part from thingiverse, and stripped it from its reinforcement.
I defined a gyroid infill with a period of 16mm, and it gave me the same calculated weight as the original reinforcement (See pictures). And it prints 25 min faster !
Now I haven't tried actually printing the parts, but I'd bet the gyroid infill will will be as strong, if not stronger than the original structure.
I've attached the .3MF and .STL files if someone wants to give it a shot. And how about LW-PLA ? Could someone spare a few grams to see how it performs ?
Jun 29, 2019, 12:06 PM
My planes plow into the field
farmertom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan
Hi everyone !
Here's something : I took 3DLab Print's Spitfire wing test part from thingiverse, and stripped it from its reinforcement.
I defined a gyroid infill with a period of 16mm, and it gave me the same calculated weight as the original reinforcement (See pictures). And it prints 25 min faster !
I wonder how much less of a gyroid infill to get the same strength as the original reinforcement? Could be a great weight saver.
Last edited by farmertom; Jun 29, 2019 at 12:11 PM.
Jun 29, 2019, 04:34 PM
Retired CAD guy
birdofplay's Avatar
I am a Simplify3d slicer user.

Saw this New Fill mechanism and thought I'd investigate.

So, I Downloaded Cura 4.0.0.
Then
After a good deal of time looking in settings and preferences ...
I am ToTaLy STUMPED !

Where is Gyroid ?

DO I have the right version ?
Am I on the right planet ?
or even the right side of the bed ... duuhhh

And if you would also be so kind ...
What is the secret to I speeding up Cura ?

It's so slow compared to my 3D CAD and Simplify or anything else that I run.

Failing this I may have to beseech Simplify3d to add Gyroid to it's suite.
Jun 29, 2019, 05:02 PM
Registered User
birdofplay
I believe a "gyroid" infill option was added on CURA 4.1.0
I certainly don't remember seeing it on the earlier versions.
Jun 29, 2019, 05:54 PM
Retired CAD guy
birdofplay's Avatar
Well , thank you for the reply.
I just uninstalled Cura 4.0.0 and INstalled 4.1.0
which , under New Things, mentioned Gyroid infill.

I was NEW to 4.0.0 and now with 4.1.0 I am still NEW !
Do you think I can even find it ?

I was scrolling down the generous list of settings and preferences
trying to "catch" a glimpse of the word Gyroid but It has escaped my old eyes

Is there a place to search for commands ?

BTW 4.1.0 is still slow on my PC.

I will continue to poke around a little while longer.


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