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Jun 15, 2019, 07:11 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
The tech I talked to on the phone recommended 3 products for storage:
(1) Assembly lube
(2) Motorcycle techni-plate TCW2
(3) Fogon spray lubricant
I didn't choose Fogon because the spray nozzle is uncontrollable if you want a drop of oil. It was a flip between TCW2 and assembly lube, and I chose the latter because you can buy just one bottle in Amazon (in Klotz you have to order 2 of everything).
To me Klotz is a fine company, but has just too many products, doing the same thing. I would hope they get rid of the legacy items or similar products, and concentrate on specific products that work on specific applications.
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Jun 15, 2019, 07:20 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
To Gary Cee:
"Be very careful with synthetics that are made for alcohol fuels. Many of them are water attractants and far from suitable for extended storage or perhaps even moderate. That includes the mean green Cool Power. "
I thought methanol and other types of alcohol attract water, not the synthetic oil per se. At least that is what I was told when I was talking to Morgan Fuel.
The reason we don't get rust in engines that use castor-based fuels is because castor polymerizes and sticks to the metal before water has a chance to attack. Morgan Fuel also told me to use ARO almost right after the flight because the synthetic fuel does not polymerize and has no water protection.
Jun 15, 2019, 07:23 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
To Cougar429:
I thought about using synthetic ATF. But, I know ATF also attacks and deteriorates rubber o-rings in and around the intake and the carburetor.
Jun 16, 2019, 04:32 AM
Cat Man
dmrcflyr2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfingphd
To dmrcflyr2:
Nop! Everything is cleaned to bare metal, and bearings were replaced (I need to replace them again because the gunk does not go away).
"Were any of the internal components rusty, have bad bearings, or need parts replaced? You did not mention anything like that. If it is just a matter of it being 'stuck' or 'sticky' with no bad effects, then what is the problem?"
You are also assuming that the supposed 'sticky' stuff is detrimental to the engine. When an engine run with castor in the fuel sits for a long period of time the castor will dry and create a protective barrier to rust. Simply heating the engine with a heat gun frees it up. Apply a bit more oil and run it. So in that example the 'sticky' stuff is a good thing not a bad one. Imasges of the 'sticky' stuff would go a long way to adding validity to your issue.

I have used 3-in-1 oil as an assembly oil and MMO for many years and never once experienced what you have. When I oil for long term storage I put at least 1 fluid ounce inside the engine. With that amount of volume I have never had it 'evaporate' and disappear. I also do not do long term storage in an environmentally controlled environment. Experiences vary based on the means and methods used. I stand by the 2 products I mentioned and have never had an issue with them. Hurray for me!
Last edited by dmrcflyr2; Jun 16, 2019 at 05:09 AM.
Jun 16, 2019, 04:44 AM
Registered User
What is wrong with using a standard synthetic automotive engine oil? I have been using a standard 5W30 full synth low ash oil as ARO with good results. It seems to lubricate well and does not dry up.
For gas engines using the synthetic two stroke oil itself seems to work well.

The idea is that these oils are made for engine use and will burn cleanly - whereas other types of oil may leave soot or other unwanted residues when heated.
Last edited by Tomve; Jun 16, 2019 at 06:20 AM. Reason: Corrected oil rating - bad memory :-)
Jun 16, 2019, 07:57 AM
Registered User
Cougar429's Avatar
Sorry, I should have specified standard ATF such as Dexron or FOMOCO. Been out of the trade for a while and most likely before synth ATF came online.

As noted there has been no damage or degradation to standard Nitrile (Buna-N) O-rings I have seen used most often in these engines.

These are some other types of material you can select from:

Neoprene, silicone, ethylene propylene rubber (EPR) and PTFE, each with its own characteristics and chemical resistance.
Jun 16, 2019, 08:06 AM
Play that funky music right
kenh3497's Avatar
As i mentioned IMO the synthetic oils of any type do not seem to wet out and stay put on a metal surface as well as a conventional oil. The synthetics to me seem to "run off" quicker that conventional. I guess if you get enough of it in an engine it makes no difference.

Ken
Jun 16, 2019, 10:10 AM
GloBroz PowerLab
1QwkSport2.5r's Avatar
I use Sewing machine oil, DEXRON III mineral ATF, and Seafoam Motor Tune. Typically I use a 95% ATF and 5% Seafoam mixture for storage and I’ll also use it for engine assembly or Sewing Machine Oil. This has worked fantastically for nearly 20 years for me. The Seafoam/ATF mix is better for storage because the detergency of the oil and Seafoam breaks down the carbon and once the engine is run next time it blows the crud out. After a year of nonuse, I’ve seen the piston get 50% cleaner just from sitting a year with this oil in it and running one tank of fuel through it.

I only use synthetic oil blends in my Dub Jett engines and my Car/truck engines. The rest of my airplane engines get 20-23% castor only. Run dry at the end of the day, store with a heavy dose of ATF mixture in the engine and it will never get sticky or gummed up.
Jun 16, 2019, 11:25 AM
Systems Test Engineer Amateur
Gary Cee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfingphd
I thought methanol and other types of alcohol attract water, not the synthetic oil per se.
This is exactly what the caution was about.
Many of the synthetic OILS that blend with alcohol fuels also blend with and hold moisture. This is also exactly why makers like Klotz instruct against using those synthetics as a storage or ARO of any type.
They are very specific and offer their gasoline intent oils as the better choice..
This is also one of the reasons for the fuel purge at the end of the day. Getting the wet slime slurry out of the works.
Jun 16, 2019, 12:25 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Gary,
Klotz only makes synthetic oil. They steered away mineral stuff many years ago, and I doubt if you can in fact find castor made by Klotz. The Assembly Lube they suggested burns off from metal surfaces once you run the engine, and it can be used in assembling and storing both gas and glow engines with no long term detrimental effects.
Jun 16, 2019, 12:32 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Gary,
I didn't answer your comment well. Sorry!
The Assembly Lube does not mix with methanol or any alcohol. So, it does not attract water if left on metal surfaces. Once you operate the engine it burns off in the first few seconds, leaving bare metal surface. At least that is what Klotz told me over the phone.
Jun 16, 2019, 12:33 PM
Cat Man
dmrcflyr2's Avatar
http://www.klotzlube.com/radio_control_.html
BeŻNOL® RACING CASTOR LUBRICANT

I buy it all the time on eBay.

S&W fuels also sells synthetic and castor oils.
http://www.s-whobby.com/spl-products.html
Jun 16, 2019, 12:39 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Hi guys,
It seems that most of you like/tried ATF. The reason I didn't choose to use it was because I thought it would attack rubber o-rings. So, I have two questions on ATF to use it as assembly oil as well as ARO:
(1) Synthetic ATF or mineral based like Dextron that does not attack rubber?
(2) Does it attract moisture in long term?
Jun 16, 2019, 12:43 PM
GloBroz PowerLab
1QwkSport2.5r's Avatar
I use mineral Dexron III. It doesn’t attract moisture by nature because if it did, your car transmission wouldn’t last long. I have not had any problems with ATF attacking rubber o-rings. Black rubber is compatible with the oil and even handles model diesel fuel without issue. The only reason I’ve had to replace black o-rings has been due to age.

When it comes to castor oil, I use the cheapest castor oil I can find. The engines don’t seem to care one way or the other and it only costs $17 for a gallon plus shipping.
Jun 16, 2019, 12:43 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
To dmrcflyr2:
I wonder if you can actually use castor (Benol) for assembly and long term storage besides making your own fuel. Does it attract moisture over time (probably does)??


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