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Jul 01, 2019, 08:18 AM
Registered User
Quote:
The discussion was about ‘compensation or hire’
No I was talking about "furtherance of business", which is not the same thing, but also used to define commercial operations. But for now this is moot as the FAA apparently is not now planning to make RC instruction require a Part 107 license.
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Jul 15, 2019, 03:51 PM
Registered User
GeoffS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
Even payment, no matter how small, is not required. Example: a person flies a quadcopter to take pictures for a non-profit organization to use to advertise an event. The pilot flies on a purely voluntary basis and receives no payment or compensation of any kind. Still a part 107 flight due to the intent of the flight being something other than pure recreation.
The converse is also true : if you go out to fly your sUAS for fun and end up selling a photo or video from that flight it's not Part 107 (although the onus would probably be on the pilot to prove their intent at the time of the flight).
Jul 15, 2019, 03:57 PM
Old Timer
California Condor's Avatar
What if you give to a friend and he gives/sells to a store he like and they use in an advertisement?
Jul 15, 2019, 04:25 PM
Registered User
GeoffS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by California Condor
What if you give to a friend and he gives/sells to a store he like and they use in an advertisement?
Everything I've read/seen from the FAA focuses on the "intent at the time of flight".

"Just for fun" = not Part 107
anything else = Part 107
Jul 15, 2019, 04:34 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
And to further refine that. Say you were flying along for fun with your camera equipped MR and happened to take a purty pichure of the sunset. Say you posted that to your FB page and the local paper saw it and asked you if they could pay you $100 to use it. That would be fine since the intent of the flight was recreational and the sale was incidental and not initiated by you.
Jul 15, 2019, 06:45 PM
Registered User
Be very careful, you can different answers and interpretation from different FAA FSDO’s.
Jul 15, 2019, 06:55 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray93J
Be very careful, you can different answers and interpretation from different FAA FSDOís.
They still have to rely on the FARs to issue citations.
Jul 16, 2019, 05:13 AM
Registered User
For Hire, Commercial, Compensation, Sharing Expenses; over the years the FAA has written several letters of interpretations to define these terms in the FAR's. I would not want to get into a legal debate with them if they observe money changing hands.
Jul 16, 2019, 08:41 AM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Can you point me to any of those interpretations that are written into the FARs, especially any with regard to sUAS operations??
Jul 16, 2019, 01:42 PM
Registered User
GeoffS's Avatar
While there has been some variation in interpretation of the FARs at different FSDOs, the FAA has been pretty consistently clear on what they mean by "recreational flying" in the context of UASes.

For example, I think the FAA would have a hard time prosecuting an enforcement action against a remote-pilot given official statements such as this one from the recent UAS webinar.
If you brought that segment into the hearing and the FAA hadn't made a subsequent clear statement retracting it, I think you would have a good case that you were making a "good faith" effort to follow the regulations.

https://youtu.be/CUCB5qyl6jM?t=855
Jul 16, 2019, 09:31 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffS
If you brought that segment into the hearing and the FAA hadn't made a subsequent clear statement retracting it, I think you would have a good case that you were making a "good faith" effort to follow the regulations.
It's a hearing run by the FAAs parent organization. It doesn't matter what you bring into it because it's a farce; the judge and the prosecutor are the same.
Jul 17, 2019, 12:01 AM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
It's a hearing run by the FAAs parent organization. It doesn't matter what you bring into it because it's a farce; the judge and the prosecutor are the same.

And yet the solution to avoid it entirely is to simply follow the rules, and when it doubt follow the most conservative interpretation. Itís just not that difficult if you arenít trying to find ways to skirt the rules.
Jul 17, 2019, 06:33 AM
Registered User
I'd have thought the trick was to avoid their attention where possible and to "play nice" during the brief periods when you can't
Jul 17, 2019, 06:38 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
And yet the solution to avoid it entirely is to simply follow the rules, and when it doubt follow the most conservative interpretation. Itís just not that difficult if you arenít trying to find ways to skirt the rules.
What hearing? I think that was "what if". I doubt there would be a hearing unless someone was fighting a ruling. I don't think there will be many as the FAA will simply wait till the worst happens and that is not likely to happen.
Jul 17, 2019, 06:41 AM
Multirotors are models too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
And yet the solution to avoid it entirely is to simply follow the rules, and when it doubt follow the most conservative interpretation. Itís just not that difficult if you arenít trying to find ways to skirt the rules.
Yep, no matter how idiotic the rule, just follow it......
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