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Jun 13, 2019, 03:13 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
I'm with Jack on this.

I routinely pull power wires apart rather than use the plug itself. Some of the old guard start going on about how this "stresses" the connector and wire and is bad practice.

I have a couple of times reminded him that there is a hidden assumption in this that they never question. "Good practice" was developed to maintain the integrity of occasionally separated connectors or relieve any possible stress on domestic mains wires connected to plugs.

We separate our heavy duty connectors and wires every flight. They should be treated as a single current carrying unit. If a soldered joint isn't good enough to withstand being pulled on the ground - it certainly isn't reliable enough to leave it. If yanking the wire pulls it off the plug, that's really good news in my view. I just prevented a possible in flight failure.

John
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Jun 14, 2019, 01:38 AM
If it flies, I can crash it.
rocketsled666's Avatar
You'll have a problem if it's a crappy connector, or your soldering is no good, or the force required to separate the connectors approaches or exceeds the force required to tear wire strands in the wire. I would never tug on the wires of an EC3 or an APP (EC3 because they're really hard to get apart, APP because the terminal might pull out of the connector body), but I might on a XT60 or a Deans. I wouldn't tug on the wires of a EC2 or XT30 because those wires tend to be fairly light and more easily damaged.
Jun 14, 2019, 01:50 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
But that's the whole point. If the connector is crappy or cold soldered I want to find out on the ground not in the air when it finally gives up.

I agree however, that I was really thinking of XT60 and Deans. Personally I have no problem with XT30s either as I don't have the strength to manually stretch the 14-18g size wires I normally use with them. If used with thin stuff like 22g, I agree.

If a soldered connection on an XT60 or Deans cannot withstand tugging on the wires it should never leave the ground in my view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketsled666
You'll have a problem if it's a crappy connector, or your soldering is no good, or the force required to separate the connectors approaches or exceeds the force required to tear wire strands in the wire. I would never tug on the wires of an EC3 or an APP (EC3 because they're really hard to get apart, APP because the terminal might pull out of the connector body), but I might on a XT60 or a Deans. I wouldn't tug on the wires of a EC2 or XT30 because those wires tend to be fairly light and more easily damaged.
Jun 14, 2019, 04:17 AM
Youtube channel : solentlifeuk
solentlife's Avatar
Maybe because I'm old school ... but I was always taught not to pull wires - but to pull the plug body..... mains leads ... etc.

I understand the poor connection comments ... but lets be honest - after soldering - do you just trust it or do you give a good tug to make sure its a solid joint ? I know I always test the joint before leaving the solder station.

Cannot help thinking its making a problem to support a PoV ?
Jun 14, 2019, 07:19 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketsled666
You'll have a problem if it's a crappy connector, or your soldering is no good, or the force required to separate the connectors approaches or exceeds the force required to tear wire strands in the wire. I would never tug on the wires of an EC3 or an APP (EC3 because they're really hard to get apart, APP because the terminal might pull out of the connector body), but I might on a XT60 or a Deans. I wouldn't tug on the wires of a EC2 or XT30 because those wires tend to be fairly light and more easily damaged.
When assembled correctly, it's pretty darn hard to have a terminal put out of an APP.

I always inspect my soldered connections under magnification and give a good tug on a soldered connection just to verify there are no issues. The force of the tug is proportional to the connector/joint/AWG of the wire used.
Jun 14, 2019, 08:45 AM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
jfetter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife
Maybe because I'm old school ... but I was always taught not to pull wires - but to pull the plug body..... mains leads ... etc.

I understand the poor connection comments ... but lets be honest - after soldering - do you just trust it or do you give a good tug to make sure its a solid joint ? I know I always test the joint before leaving the solder station.

Cannot help thinking its making a problem to support a PoV ?
Tug? I fly 14S and 16S setups, I pull the Deans apart by the wires routinely and carry the packs always by the wires, I don't even consider it being near enough to pull a solder joint, as I would bet the force required would exceed 50 lbs., if not more. People have to understand if you are that delicate with stuff then you are probably not soldering correctly, a proper joint includes the solder coating the individual strands BTW, if you find some strands pulling loose, you are not heating the wire/connector/solder enough...

Jack
Jun 14, 2019, 09:56 AM
Youtube channel : solentlifeuk
solentlife's Avatar
I carry my LiPo's by the leads ... but that's not putting any strain on the plug. Its easier to carry 5 or 6 that way.

Still think creating a problem to suit a PoV ...
Jun 14, 2019, 06:50 PM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
jfetter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife
I carry my LiPo's by the leads ... but that's not putting any strain on the plug. Its easier to carry 5 or 6 that way.

Still think creating a problem to suit a PoV ...
Think about it, you are simply putting the strain on the LiPo solder joints, it's all the same...

Jack
Jun 14, 2019, 08:57 PM
Registered User
GoatZilla's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfetter
It's not that hard, I would switch before doing that, I was just saying don't fear grabbing them by the wires, geez I carry larger packs around routinely by the wires...

Jack
Carrying them by the wires has nothing to do with this. Most packs have strain relief (fold the wire over across the pack) so it's not directly tugging on the solder joints.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604
I'm with Jack on this.

I routinely pull power wires apart rather than use the plug itself. Some of the old guard start going on about how this "stresses" the connector and wire and is bad practice.

I have a couple of times reminded him that there is a hidden assumption in this that they never question. "Good practice" was developed to maintain the integrity of occasionally separated connectors or relieve any possible stress on domestic mains wires connected to plugs.

We separate our heavy duty connectors and wires every flight. They should be treated as a single current carrying unit. If a soldered joint isn't good enough to withstand being pulled on the ground - it certainly isn't reliable enough to leave it. If yanking the wire pulls it off the plug, that's really good news in my view. I just prevented a possible in flight failure.

John
For some of these soldered connections, that might be OK. It's not the stress on the solder to be worried about, but the insulation and inner wire around the solder point now you're stressing.

There was a time where these battery connectors were crimped on.

Try applying your method to your JST-XH connectors and see where that gets you guys. Try carrying your large packs by the XH connectors.

It's not a good habit to get into.
Jun 14, 2019, 09:22 PM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
I certainly never suggested anything remotely like that. My actual point was about the assumptions we make without thinking about it when we follow "established practice" when sometimes they need to be rethought. It applied specifically only to the soldered connection of heavy gauge wires to high current connectors.

Lets move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatZilla
Try applying your method to your JST-XH connectors and see where that gets you guys. Try carrying your large packs by the XH connectors.

It's not a good habit to get into.
Jun 14, 2019, 10:19 PM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
jfetter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatZilla
...It's not a good habit to get into.
To each their own but I view this statement as old school myth or just good 'ol fear mongering; just like LiPo break-in and discharging to zero then pounding a nail through or disposing in a bucket of water. A solder joint is a mechanical joint, it has a specific set of metrics, sheer strength being one of them, applying a light load to aid in separating the connectors is not in any way dangerous when properly soldered and insulated...

Jack
Last edited by jfetter; Jun 14, 2019 at 10:24 PM.
Jun 15, 2019, 04:54 AM
Registered User
GoatZilla's Avatar
And right behind that solder joint is regular wire/insulation with no additional strain relief. It's not meant to be a structural element.

It's not a good habit to get into, and it's not a good habit to suggest to anyone.

Don't carry your batteries by the wire, and don't separate the connectors by the wire.

If you stop to think about it as prescribed, then it stops being an assumption you never thought about.
Jun 15, 2019, 06:57 AM
Registered User
atreis's Avatar
There's optimal behavior (don't carry by the wires) which I doubt anyone disagrees is "best practice". Then there's bad behavior (always carry by the wires, and perhaps twirl them around or bounce them up and down for fun) which I doubt anyone disagrees is "bad practice". Then there's pragmatic behavior (carry gently by the wires now and then when hands are full) which is usually okay and what many people actually do.
Jun 15, 2019, 07:35 AM
Registered User
I need a contact that is quick, painless, smaller than an Anderson SILVER SB1/0 Ga. Ive got loads of them but they are to large.

Rated for 350 amps or more.

Any suggestions?
Jun 15, 2019, 09:35 AM
Registered User
plain bullets can exceed their rating with natural airflow cooling

at 8mm should be OK

could even get away with 6mm for shorter periods

not recommending this though, YMMV

what the heck are you doing F5B?


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