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May 25, 2019, 07:12 PM
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Discussion

Ace 4-40 and others


I remember the Ace 4-40 kit and the 4-40 Bipe, (my friend built one) and I think there were other; 4-60 and the 4-90/120.

Are these the same as the Sig Four-Star kits? They sure look the same. I just assumed they were but I don't know for sure.
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May 25, 2019, 07:40 PM
AMA 46133
SeismicCWave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboPilotFL
I remember the Ace 4-40 kit and the 4-40 Bipe, (my friend built one) and I think there were other; 4-60 and the 4-90/120.

Are these the same as the Sig Four-Star kits? They sure look the same. I just assumed they were but I don't know for sure.
The Ace 4-40 is a shoulder wing design. The Sig 4 Star 40 is a low wing design. They don't look quite the same. The Sig 4 Star 40 was designed by Bruce Tharpe. Bruce then left Sig and created a 60 size low wing sport plane called the Venture 60. Sig took Bruce's 4 Star design and enlarged it to become the 4 Star 60. I don't remember there was a 4 Star bipe. However Ace did have a 4-40 bipe. The Ace 4-40 series was designed by Doc Matthews.


Take a look at the images:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ace+...yQ7MGL-x0vkoM:

https://www.google.com/search?biw=18...30.G08BN0WdFVg

The 2 planes did not look anywhere near the same.
May 25, 2019, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeismicCWave

The 2 planes did not look anywhere near the same.
Thank's for straightening that one out for me. Maybe they are 'Identical cousins' like on the Patty Duke Show. I see a resemblance. Now I'm going to have to look at the construction.

Just wondering, who owns the rights to the ACE kits now? Horizon I bet.
.
Last edited by JimboPilotFL; May 25, 2019 at 08:03 PM.
May 25, 2019, 10:18 PM
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SeismicCWave's Avatar
>>Just wondering, who owns the rights to the ACE kits now? Horizon I bet. <<

I wonder. I know Thunder Tiger bought out Ace. I have no idea what happened to Thunder Tiger.
May 26, 2019, 04:51 AM
A man with too many toys
I see that plans age available for some of the ACE kits https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=8666

Is anyone cutting short kits of these? I would really like to have a 4-20 short kit.


.
May 26, 2019, 10:37 AM
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Thread OP
I think I used to notice that Dynaflite airplanes used to advertised next to or with the ACE models. I see now they only have three planes and the rest are discontinued. edit to add > Is Dynaflite even in business anymore? I see they were owned by Great Planes at one time. I really liked that Super Decathlon kit.

http://www.dynaflite.com/airplanes/index.html

http://www.dynaflite.com/parts/discontinued.html
Last edited by JimboPilotFL; May 26, 2019 at 01:36 PM.
May 26, 2019, 07:32 PM
Registered User
I had an ACE 4-60 bipe. It flew fantastic. However; I didn't enjoy building it. The ribs in the kit were thick and hard. The die cutting was awful. I don't care for multi spar construction either. The fuse was made of plywood too. I thought it was heavier than it could have been.

It was quite a flyer though. If anyone gets one, turn the landing gear around. As built, the mains are too far forward and cause poor ground handling.

carl
May 27, 2019, 12:41 AM
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J Bergsmith's Avatar
I had the 4-40 & 4-60, they both flew great. But like Carl indicated above, the kits were rough with heavy wood. The overall design could have been better utilizing lighter construction. That being said, they flew great.
May 27, 2019, 02:47 PM
Engine man
dmrcflyr2's Avatar
Perhaps Rob (balsaworkbench) can design a proper 4*40 bipe, based loosely on the SIG airframe. I would LOVE to have a 4 size bipe.
May 27, 2019, 06:17 PM
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JollyPopper200's Avatar
I had a 4-60 once that flew very well and I enjoyed flying it quite a bit. Then one day I fell while flying the plane and by the time I got to my feet and tried to locate the plane, it had disappeared behind some trees never to be seen again. I could hear it for awhile but no matter how I turned it, it never seemed to get closer. I would love to have another one and have often thought about eliminating the turtle deck behind the wing making it flat much like a stick. Wonder how that would fly. The way it comes out of the box with that stupid looking windshield sitting on the wing and the turtle deck behind it, it looks silly even though it does fly very well.
May 27, 2019, 07:04 PM
A man with a plan
Balsaworkbench's Avatar
Yeah, it is kind of a dorky looking plane, but they fly great. I saw a guy at the flying field with a 4-20 powered by an OS FS20, and definitely was a very good flier.

If you want something more sporty looking, try the Bingo!, which is subtitled on the plan "a low wing 4-60". As far as I know, Ace made the Bingo! and the Big Bingo! (120 size) but not any other sizes. It would be easy enough to start with the Ace 4-20 parts and move the wing to the bottom like the 60 size, and we'd have the Bingo 20. That's basically what Doc Mathews did for the original.

Regarding the 4-40 Bipe, that looks like kind of a half-heartedly designed plane. There must be some better 40 size biplane that you could build. Come to think of it, I could recommend several off the top of my head. Something I've learned from all the drafting I've done for laser kits is that there are a lot of well known designs that are derivative of some other design, and you're probably no better off with one than the other. Sometimes a plane has one major shortcoming even though it is similar in all other respects to a few other planes, and maybe you should build one of the others. If you want a really classy looking 40 size biplane that flies great, try the RCM Sporty Ace by Chuck Cunningham. Here's a photo of mine that I built last summer.
May 28, 2019, 08:27 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboPilotFL
I remember the Ace 4-40 kit and the 4-40 Bipe, (my friend built one) and I think there were other; 4-60 and the 4-90/120.

Are these the same as the Sig Four-Star kits? They sure look the same. I just assumed they were but I don't know for sure.
I think the Bingo looks a bit like a Four Star, not the 4-40.
May 28, 2019, 09:11 AM
A man with a plan
Balsaworkbench's Avatar
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=6535

A large segment of the article is quoted at the above link. It tells the story of where the name as well as the design came from.

If I had to guess, I think the 4 Star is a Bingo ripoff. But it's not likely that we'll find any confirmation of that.
May 28, 2019, 09:41 AM
Engine man
dmrcflyr2's Avatar
Is the airfoil between the 4-40 4-60's different than the Bingo? Or is it just build techniques, fewer spars, etc? Sorry, I just don't have the time to research this.

I am just curious as to why you like the Bingo so much more than the 4-40 and why the Bingo is so much better than the SIG 4 star series of airplanes. Bruce Tharpe was the original designer of the 4 Star series I believe and he is well reknowned. DB Matthews, eh not so much.
May 28, 2019, 09:53 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmrcflyr2
Is the airfoil between the 4-40 4-60's different than the Bingo? Or is it just build techniques, fewer spars, etc? Sorry, I just don't have the time to research this.

I am just curious as to why you like the Bingo so much more than the 4-40 and why the Bingo is so much better than the SIG 4 star series of airplanes. Bruce Tharpe was the original designer of the 4 Star series I believe and he is well reknowned. DB Matthews, eh not so much.
Hmm? I thought DB Matthews was a bit more well known. Well in my generation. The ACE 4-40 series was big in the 80's. But ACE kits are not as well made as SIG, so the 4 Star was more popular when it came out, and the only fame Bruce Tharp got was because he named his company after himself.


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