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May 21, 2019, 05:04 PM
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turbonut's Avatar
Lol..In the day of the foamy there are no building skills
Latest blog entry: In flight
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May 21, 2019, 09:06 PM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Thread OP
The only down-side, Scott, is the ducting. I guess I could just fab one from Bristol and balsa, Ala' RBC. But, damn...the formed ducting on this is just so pretty!

Kevin! Been a long time. Hope you chime in often. You were one of my early mentors. Dan, been around?

Fuzz
May 22, 2019, 06:39 AM
Registered User
Larry Dudeck's Avatar
"Hiline RFB". The old red flame blaster. That's going back to at least 2001. Didn't think you were that old����
May 22, 2019, 01:47 PM
killickb
killickb's Avatar
RFB in an ? Built many years ago, on second fan unit and now flying "gently" on 2 cell Lipo. Also my Aerographics Hunter from just as many years ago -- I stopped when I could not create acceptable inlets from card stock, wings and tailplane are done.

Took my tissue covered, Rapier powered KK Mig 15 to the field yesterday, most had never heard of let alone seen !! I see someone is trying to bring back Jetex albeit with one time use rocket motors. I wonder if my old Jetex fuel will still burn ?

Oh the joys of cutting stringer slots in fragile, printwood fuse formers.
May 22, 2019, 03:23 PM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Thread OP
Larry, my first electric fan was the RFB, for Dave's SAAB Tunnan. Circa 1996 FM mag. Yea...You and I are getting up there, buddy!

Bill, was just talking about the aerographics Hunter, earlier in the thread. The intake is extravagant to say the least. Isn't that the Screamer, on the left pic? I have owned about 6 RFB's and BFB's since they came out. The rotor is just about useless above 300W. Too flexible. I put a Astro 020 in one on 8-600AE cells, and the blades stretched and welded themselves to the shroud. RIP! Then I cut the KY rotor to 63mm with a 16/15/3 and 12-1100Kans. WOW! Took the wattage Mig strait up.


I was able to start on the fuselage last nite. Was able to fit the whole rear fuselage, kitty-corner, on a piece of ceiling tile. I'll have some pics tomorrow.

Fuzz
May 23, 2019, 08:00 AM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Thread OP
The right fuselage half is off the board. A lesson I learned many years ago, when building these type of structures, is about stress. If you have to bend wood, to make it fit, that induces stress. Stress causes twist. End of lesson thought

Pic# 29 & 30 The kit uses 1/8x1/4" top and bottom keel. I like to laminate keels. So, two 1/8sq are used to make the keels. Using reg white glue, they make stiffer keels. Like surface outlines used in many designs. From the rearward F-13(there are two F-13 stations)to F-15, the parts are used for the keels.

Pic# 31, 32 & 33 Rear F-13 It is vital that three bulkheads are sq to the building board. F-13 is the first. Add the side keel F-5 and check squareness.

Pic# 34 The rear of the side keel should match the same position of the top & bottom keels, as related to the plans. This will make F-15 square.

Pic# 35 I had to shim F-15 to match the side keel, 1/16"

Pic# 36& 37 The 1/18sq inserts are cut to fit between bulkhead locations.

Pic# 38 Very important that these two bulkheads are 90deg. Also the fan bulkhead assembly. But F-13 and F-10 will keep everything else sq when adding the FR rib.

Pic# 39 Take F-7-F-9 at 90deg.

Pic# 40 To accept the part FR, is is good to taper the notch seats that FR attaches to.

Pic# 41 Because FR does not sit 90deg on the bulkheads, the slots in FR need to be tapered. You want FR to sit on the bulkheads with no stress!

Pic# 42 My FR was a little short on F-10.

Pic# 43 Scrap 1/16 fixed that. At this point FR is not attached to F-9&8

Pic# 44 After sighting down the length of FR, and sanding the seats to get it strait, I tacked FR in place

Pic# 45 I added 1/8sq inserts under the 1/8 side keel. Will stiffen the bare frame. No tight fits! Stress... Use white glue.

Pic# 46 Add the forward stringers. This is an area where stress can not be helped. Trick to that. I dabbed my finger in ammonia/water and rubbed it in the areas between the joints. Staying away from the joints. Also on the bulkheads. This will relieve the stress somewhat. And when dry, permanent.

Pic# 47 And FR is strait!

Pic# 48 This is where I realized I had an early kit. In an old thread, I read where F-7A was missing in early kits. I checked the part layout sheet, and it indeed was not included on the cut files. The plans show the part as seen, in the intake front view. Not an accurate way to reproduce the part. But, I did.

Pic# 49 The part was oversize, but matched the molded intake. So, I'll wait till later to install F-7A

Pic# 50 Half shell is nice and strait.

That was the easy side

Fuzz
May 23, 2019, 10:38 AM
Pro Hoarder
turbonut's Avatar
Nice..It sure looks like a well thought out kit...Very lite weight construction..Does help to have a builder with some background in balsa
Latest blog entry: In flight
May 23, 2019, 06:40 PM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi Scott, yes, the engineering is well thought out. Some of it is discovered. It's not easy to write text and construction notes for a kit, and cover everything for those who have limited experience. The opposite fuselage half is the slow side, for sure. I started at the tail and moved forward. Once you get to F-10, then the fun begins with fitting the ducting. Some interesting pics coming up.

I keep forgetting to talk about the bulkhead top&bottoms. Bulkheads F-13 only have concern for T&B if the rear fan mounts F-13A are used for the stock fan placement. Bulkheads F-7-F-10, HAVE a top & bottom. Easy to identify on the plans, and to remember the wing has anhedral.

Fuzz
May 24, 2019, 07:53 PM
Registered User
AntiArf's Avatar
Gotta love the hand built fan Fuzz. Built a number of them recently for 40mm fans, since I had the vanes from 50mm housings. Obviously 40m rotors don't work well in 50mm housings. Like yours, they were built as weight savers too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbonut
Lol..In the day of the foamy there are no building skills
Yep even a GWS kit is FAR too much work these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Cox
Wow...I remember this and the BAE Hawk from West Wings. Classic kits that required, by today's standard, legendary building skills!
Yep every once in a while we see a new sign up that acquired something like an EAM kit, that's asking for a building instruction manual. Not a chance of them figuring out how those few balsa perimeter parts fit into the sheeted foam core wing.
May 24, 2019, 08:59 PM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi Bill, I like my homemade shrouds much better than the stock provided ones. The 1/64 laminate is stiffer by far and perfectly round. This allows close uniform tolerances. The only equal or better is a composite. The WeMo 505 was originally created to provide better relationship between duct area and FSA on some designs of the day. One was the Offshore P-80(now RBC) Also, the 505 created higher efflux, at the same watts as the 68mm 480, increased dynamic thrust.

Everytime I do a build, I get PM's about supplying plan copies and templates. These guy's just don't give up. I respect ownership and copyrights. So, you guy's BUY THE KIT!

Try to get a few hours in on the Hunter, and watch the wind report on the local news. Rain or wind...rain or wind...rain and wind...rain and wind...

Fuzz
May 25, 2019, 08:01 AM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Thread OP
So..on with it. Was going to go flying today, but I discovered a bad tire on my mountaineer R/F. Besides I'm sore as hell from yesterdays delivering.


Pic# 51 Starts with duplicating the top and bottom keel 1/8sq laminations.

Pic# 52 Getting the bulkheads 90deg to the keels, I made this tool from 1/8 sheet. Notice the channel to capture the right side keel.

Pic# 53 Tool used to fix rear F-13. Jig tool fits side keel snug


Pic# 54 Keeping the tool in place, the rear parts are assembled. Notice the 1/16 shim added, as the first side, to place F-15 properly against rear of K-5

Pic# 55 Then work forward

Pic# 56 The fan was inserted to fix fan bulkheads properly.

Pic# 57 Ducts were scalloped to provide a vent, making the fuselage a low pressure vessel.

Pic# 58 After about two hours of fanagaling I got the ducts and remaining formers in place. My cut F-7A's did not work well. So I built up my own from 3/16" sht. The F-7A part did fit where it contacted FR. So I cut this area from the part and "scabbed" it in. I'll show this in better detail later

Pic# 59 Tapered 3/16 sht used to give support to vent area.


Pic# 60 View of vent from exhaust.


Pic# 61 I added some strip wood the F-8 bulkheads where they contacted the duct. And under the stringer between F-8& F-9, top and bottoms

Fuzz
May 25, 2019, 08:11 AM
Registered User
Larry Dudeck's Avatar
St. Martin,
That is indeed a Bill Griggs "Electro Screamer ". Mine flew on a RFB, maybe a "speed 400" motor on 6 NiCds. Somehow, Robert Waggoner from Electric Jet Factory lent assistance and added a 7th cell to the pack. After that the plane flew much better.

Ah, memory lane....
May 25, 2019, 08:42 AM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi Larry, I thought it was. I had one of the kits, I may still have it, as I don't recall building it. Perfect design for the RFB. Nice and clean. I used a lot of 600-AE cells, back then. Even had a soldering fixture and T-Tip for the 200W iron, to end solder cells. Then Wattage first marketed the 900 NiMh, then Kans 1100 NiMh high discharge. Whole new world! Robert was sure helpful, in those early days.

Most of the new breed of experts have no idea of what we went through, to stop putting props on jets. We had to strive for efficiency to be successful. We used Lipos, brushless motors, to enhance the efficiency we already learned. No plug&play.

Fuzz
May 25, 2019, 05:58 PM
Watch out for that planet....
Shane McMillan's Avatar
Hi Fuzz,

Nice project and off to a great start.

Would you believe i was standing next to (touching actually) a full size Hunter only 2 weeks ago, but didn't take any photos! If only I had known what you were up to! The Aircraft is based with the HARS (Historic Aircraft Restoration Society) at Albion Park airport, Wollongong NSW, 1 hour from where I live and 10 mins from where my son lives.

I did find some photos of the aircraft which I took about 5 years ago though at a previous airshow so have attached them.

https://hars.org.au/hawker-hunter-fga/

Oh, and I also used to end cell solder 600AE's too, back in the day!

Cheers,
Shane.
May 25, 2019, 11:59 PM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi Shane! I did not know I was going to be blessed with this kit, until a few weeks ago. And when I discovered I could build it in my limited space, icing on the cake. That's basically the colors I may use. With some bright colors thrown in.

More progress.

Pic# 62 The connector duct is installed. Took three tries before I got it right. Made from kit provided plastic. Overlap is about 1/4". The increase in duct area, moving aft, is clear.

Pic# 63 Duct ends perfectly at duct bulkhead/fan stop.

Pic# 64/65 More Views.

Pic# 66 One of my fav tools. Ladies emory boards. Cheap and easy to use.

Pic# 67 I used some scrap outer pushrod sheaths for servo extensions.

Pic# 68 Motor wire tubes. Tubes are from K&S MW, when bought bulk. Two wires will fit in a tube. So..2 tubes.

Pic# 69 My old Guillows type build jigs. Mounted on 3/16" tempered glass

Pic# 70/71 I strip planked the tapered tail section, because of the compound curves, with 1/4x3/32. I used 3/32 because it bends uniformly, as compared to 1/16. Wil sand down later. Rest is all 1/16" sheet. Note T-pins used to divide side keel for sheet placement. White glue and thin CA.

Fuzz


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