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May 22, 2019, 05:25 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone
Your failing to factor in "Time". 8 years have passed since the RC revolution began.
The "RC Revolution"? Just what exactly is that?
When the first RC radios were built back in the 40's?
When the first proportional radios were made in the late 60's?
When dual rates were introduced in the 70's?
When the first computer radios were introduced in the 80's?
When radios with multi-model memory were introduced in the 80's and 90's?
When synthesized RF decks allowing frequency selection were introduced in the 80's?
When 2.4GHz spread spectrum radios were introduced in the early 2000's?

What are you referring to?
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May 22, 2019, 05:51 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone
Your failing to factor in "Time". 8 years have passed since the RC revolution began.

Early on the AMA could have been a leader of that revolution. They had the opportunity. It was there. Instead over the last 8 years they have repeatedly done nothing or better yet did things completely wrong. This forum is full of those threads.

Membership is everything... They got neutered by the FAA because it became really apparent that they were completely inept at any kind of leadership role when it came to drones/fpv and RC in general. If that had been different they would have had much more pull politically.

Membership is Everything... New members are the life of an organization. AMA is in decline. Fields are dying. Members are dying. Membership is dying.

Your statement again illustrates AMA's biggest failing... Inability to change to the times. This same theme seems to plague private fields as well.

At this point its pretty obvious the AMA is not going to change. Its in a slow decline and will eventually fade away. As will the fields.

From king of the RC world to pretty much a non entity. Only took 8 years of complete incompetence to get there.

This is a group who's "Private" fields discriminated openly against the rest of the RC community. They are getting exactly what they deserve. Yes... Consider that a "Gloat".

NS

After 8 years of decline and you still cannot see the need for change I don't know what to tell you. Change can be painful but the alternative is way worse...
Frankly, if you approached these clubs with the vitriol that you display here, then it's no wonder nobody was interested in you as a potential member. You reap what you sow, just as the AMA does.

RStrowe
May 22, 2019, 05:55 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kallend
Maybe our resident "regulate the hobby out of existence" poster can tell us exactly how the 400ft limit is to be enforced? What data will prove a violation to the satisfaction of a court? And if you fly from a slope, where is the datum going to be?

Look at the trajectory of the regulatory components put in place and the answer is pretty obvious. First Congress requires registration. Then they put in place specific operational limits. Third they give the FAA necessary authority. And last? It’s RemoteID ... which will be the tool needed for enforcement.
May 22, 2019, 06:00 PM
Heath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone
Your failing to factor in "Time". 8 years have passed since the RC revolution began.

Early on the AMA could have been a leader of that revolution. They had the opportunity. It was there. Instead over the last 8 years they have repeatedly done nothing or better yet did things completely wrong. This forum is full of those threads.
And sadly they are filled with half baked ideas that often hinge on the AMA somehow forcing local clubs and members to do this or that. How the AMA is going to force members and clubs to do anything they don't already want to do is never explained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone
Membership is everything... They got neutered by the FAA because it became really apparent that they were completely inept at any kind of leadership role when it came to drones/fpv and RC in general. If that had been different they would have had much more pull politically.

Membership is Everything... New members are the life of an organization. AMA is in decline. Fields are dying. Members are dying. Membership is dying.
The AMA did not get neutered by the FAA. The AMA had almost no power to begin with. The conflict is not even between the FAA and the AMA. And the FAA is simply the tool the Commercial Drone Alliance is using. Money, not membership is everything in politics. Even if the AMA had done everything "right" and every person who flies anything was a member, it would not make any difference to the current political situation over the past 8 years as the money would still be on the CDA's side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone
Your statement again illustrates AMA's biggest failing... Inability to change to the times. This same theme seems to plague private fields as well.
Changes that ensure 75% of the current members and clubs quit is not a great way to start a membership drive. Random change for the sake of change is not a great plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone
At this point its pretty obvious the AMA is not going to change. Its in a slow decline and will eventually fade away. As will the fields.

From king of the RC world to pretty much a non entity. Only took 8 years of complete incompetence to get there.
The AMA was never king of the RC community in the US more less the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone
This is a group who's "Private" fields discriminated openly against the rest of the RC community. They are getting exactly what they deserve. Yes... Consider that a "Gloat".

NS
May 22, 2019, 08:24 PM
EDF all the way!
bruff's Avatar
I know our AMA field(Arizona Model Aviators), Superstition Airpark has FPV, quadcopters, helicopters all flying at our field. Right now we are trying to find someone to help lead/setup FPV races down in our lower parking area. The only major restriction we have is if you are flying off the main runway you need to fly a racetrack type pattern. This is for all types of models. We do have an area in the back off to the side where you can go fly practice hovering etc.
Bob
May 22, 2019, 09:20 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
Look at the trajectory of the regulatory components put in place and the answer is pretty obvious. First Congress requires registration. Then they put in place specific operational limits. Third they give the FAA necessary authority. And last? It’s RemoteID ... which will be the tool needed for enforcement.
Can't you even get this right? First the FAA requires registration. Then Congress gives them the necessary authority. In that order.

As for RemoteID, sure, it's a tool needed for enforcement. So anyone with a suspicious mind doesn't install it, and doesn't have a cop built into their RC device ratting them out.

But, you say, if they don't have RemoteID they're known to be illegal right? So what. Without RemoteID the FAA doesn't know they're there, any more than they know about every turkey vulture or mylar balloon.
May 22, 2019, 10:59 PM
Commander, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
franklin_m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
Can't you even get this right? First the FAA requires registration. Then Congress gives them the necessary authority. In that order.



As for RemoteID, sure, it's a tool needed for enforcement. So anyone with a suspicious mind doesn't install it, and doesn't have a cop built into their RC device ratting them out.



But, you say, if they don't have RemoteID they're known to be illegal right? So what. Without RemoteID the FAA doesn't know they're there, any more than they know about every turkey vulture or mylar balloon.

Sure, not installing it can be a strategy for a little while. But you can expect public land flying sites will be the first to require it. And it’ll be darn near automatic. Because most public’s sites include a statement like “comply with all FAA regulations” as a condition of use. So guess what? If RemoteID is a requirement under the rules, it just became mandatory for folks using that site.

Similar thing will happen as FAA gets more publicity on it ... I could see private land owners next to require it for sites on their land.

And there’s always the possibility that the AMA insurer will require it.

So lots of ways the pressure to participate in RemoteID could ramp up.
May 22, 2019, 11:13 PM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Thread OP
I cannot wait until I can install remote ID in my competition gliders so I can stop endangering the NAS with my flying.
May 22, 2019, 11:33 PM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
xanuser's Avatar
if they approve some phone app that will alert anyone that cares that im flying in my 400'x 4000' bubble, sure.
but install something additional on my craft? ha! im trying save a gram by switching to plastic prop and cage screws, there's no way im adding more weight, or battery drain and RF garbage for that matter.

besides, please tell me where it would fit!?

Last edited by xanuser; May 22, 2019 at 11:40 PM.
May 22, 2019, 11:40 PM
That thing almost hit me
Tahoed's Avatar
Does anybody really think this stuff is really enforceable ?? Sorry, but I really don't see it. As far as the AMA goes, anybody who actually collects a paycheck at this point should be ashamed.....
Last edited by Tahoed; May 22, 2019 at 11:53 PM.
May 23, 2019, 12:17 AM
Team Futaba
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Thread OP
Enforcement will come the same way many regulations do, by exception.
The FAA is not going to be wandering around with laser rangefinders measuring how high you are. But cause an incident with a manned aircraft, and then they will enforce upon you!! Plus operations outside regulations will work against you if you end up in any kind of legal battle or liability issue.

Beyond that, recreational enforcement will come when landowners start writing it into leases and local governments use it as the basis of their own ordinances.
May 23, 2019, 12:34 AM
Registered User
Dogship's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R

Beyond that, recreational enforcement will come when landowners start writing it into leases
What?! I am a land/home owner and I have no idea what you mean.
You're saying if I rent my home out then I can put in the lease that the renters can't fly a drone?
I must be missing something here.
May 23, 2019, 04:47 AM
Registered User
If you own the land, you can write anything you want into a lease. If they do not like it, then they do not lease from you. You own the land, you make the rules.
May 23, 2019, 06:18 AM
FlyLikeAnEagle-LandLikeADove
u2builder's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
Sure, not installing it can be a strategy for a little while. But you can expect public land flying sites will be the first to require it. And it’ll be darn near automatic. Because most public’s sites include a statement like “comply with all FAA regulations” as a condition of use. So guess what? If RemoteID is a requirement under the rules, it just became mandatory for folks using that site.

Similar thing will happen as FAA gets more publicity on it ... I could see private land owners next to require it for sites on their land.

And there’s always the possibility that the AMA insurer will require it.

So lots of ways the pressure to participate in RemoteID could ramp up.
I don't think this widespread adaptation of remote ID is going to happen anytime soon. There are many technical issues to work out and test. Millions of toy drone owners just aren't going to do this right off the bat. If it ever does happen, it mostly discourage people who fly from fixed flying sites, who aren't really causing the "problems" . Remote ID is a case of the government/FAA not being able to "see the forest from the trees."

It is best to search for simple answers to complex problems. This is a case of finding a complex solution to a simple problem.
May 23, 2019, 06:31 AM
Multirotors are models too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m
Sure, not installing it can be a strategy for a little while. But you can expect public land flying sites will be the first to require it. And it’ll be darn near automatic. Because most public’s sites include a statement like “comply with all FAA regulations” as a condition of use. So guess what? If RemoteID is a requirement under the rules, it just became mandatory for folks using that site.

Similar thing will happen as FAA gets more publicity on it ... I could see private land owners next to require it for sites on their land.

And there’s always the possibility that the AMA insurer will require it.

So lots of ways the pressure to participate in RemoteID could ramp up.
And just who is going to police that? Just went flying at a multiple use area yesterday. Gorgeous day, flew for about an hour, the crickets and I. Do you actually believe there will be a "hall monitor" watching you fly, making sure your beacon is pinging away? Even in more urban areas, who is going to police this? Local LEOs have more important things to do than hassle the guy minding his own business flying a "park sized" foam glider.

Does Remote ID have a place, sure, for BVLOS operations....
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