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May 30, 2019, 02:04 AM
Heligamist
BrokeDad's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator3434
4 flights on the fusion 180 and the tail wags more than my dogs when I come home from work. Any suggestions for PID Settings?
Check the tail pushrod guides. People have reported they twist easy putting tension on the control rod. A dab of CA has been recommended to hold them in place.
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Jun 01, 2019, 12:04 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeDad
Check the tail pushrod guides. People have reported they twist easy putting tension on the control rod. A dab of CA has been recommended to hold them in place.
I love it when I get to benefit from others learning's
Jun 01, 2019, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator3434
4 flights on the fusion 180 and the tail wags more than my dogs when I come home from work. Any suggestions for PID Settings?
I would also check that the tail is set up correctly. You need a bit of R pitch when the servo is centered.

Blade Fusion Tail explained ( Part 2 of tips and tricks) the 30 seconds I missed. (2 min 9 sec)
Last edited by zadaw; Jun 03, 2019 at 01:11 PM.
Jun 01, 2019, 10:16 AM
Registered User
Try changing the tail gyro gain from 75 (recommended in manual) to 90, 92, 95, etc.
On all 3 of my CFXs settings above 90 have the greatest effect on reducing tail wag.
Fusion uses same FBL as the CFX/Trio so there's a good chance this will help.
I don't believe there is any 'rate' mode split in the tail gyro, just heading hold, so 50 isn't zero, it's really 50, 75 isn't 50, it's really 75, etc.
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Jun 01, 2019 at 10:22 AM.
Jun 03, 2019, 07:19 AM
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cgriffith's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw
I would also check that the tail is set up correctly. You need a bit of R pitch when the servo is centered.
Sorry zadaw, but I completely disagree with this recommendation. The tail should always have zero pitch when servo arm is centered. Adjusting this only changes the amount of +/- pitch capable by the tail rotor. Until the heli is in the air, there is no need for tail pitch, then once in the air, let the FBL unit decide if more right pitch is needed based on users input.
Jun 03, 2019, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgriffith
Sorry zadaw, but I completely disagree with this recommendation. The tail should always have zero pitch when servo arm is centered. Adjusting this only changes the amount of +/- pitch capable by the tail rotor. Until the heli is in the air, there is no need for tail pitch, then once in the air, let the FBL unit decide if more right pitch is needed based on users input.
You can tell Lynx they are wrong then. They have a tool with all their Oxy kits to set the exact amount of R pitch required, which is approximately 3.5 degrees.
Jun 03, 2019, 01:20 PM
Going back to balsa
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw
They have a tool with all their Oxy kits to set the exact amount of R pitch required, which is approximately 3.5 degrees.
This is illustrated in the oxy 4 manual (page 34):

http://lynxheli.com//manuals/OXY4-MAX-MANUAL-REV12.PDF
Jun 03, 2019, 02:20 PM
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Thickfog's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgriffith
Sorry zadaw, but I completely disagree with this recommendation. The tail should always have zero pitch when servo arm is centered. Adjusting this only changes the amount of +/- pitch capable by the tail rotor. Until the heli is in the air, there is no need for tail pitch, then once in the air, let the FBL unit decide if more right pitch is needed based on users input.
Most modern helis have some built in offset when the arm is at 90 degress.

The flybarless unit will not correct drift without this counter torque.
Jun 03, 2019, 02:33 PM
Registered User
PaulB's Avatar
Can of worms that one........

Wait and see what comes out.

Paul
Latest blog entry: Just To Say Hello.......
Jun 03, 2019, 04:26 PM
Registered User
I set every single VP tail heli I own with some right pitch at servo neutral. Justin Coe recommended it for Fusion 180 in his setup video as well, and watching his Fusion 180 fly it looks as if it works.
Jun 03, 2019, 04:34 PM
Folding Spacetime
navigator2011's Avatar
I always have some positive tail pitch at neutral, so the tail will hold in rate mode.
Jun 03, 2019, 08:13 PM
Registered User
I used to set my helis up with some positive tail pitch at servo neutral, for that rate mode thing.
For about the last 5 years I've changed to 0 tail pitch at servo neutral on my 550s, 450s and 180s.
I prefer the symmetrical mechanical travel available for the servo and tail pitch slider.
I let the gyros/FBL controllers figure out what they need to do to keep the helis from spinning.
I don't fly rate mode anyway (on the helis that have rate mode).
Have not had a single issue doing this.
Maybe for smack-3D this is an issue (?)
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Jun 03, 2019 at 08:20 PM.
Jun 03, 2019, 09:35 PM
Registered User
cgriffith's Avatar
Opps. I forgot that this is one of those topics that is not worth discussion because there is no right or wrong. Both options have an argument for why it is best, both options work just as well. It is up to the heli pilot to decide. Please forgive me for even mentioning it.
Jun 03, 2019, 09:55 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR4-Pilot
I used to set my helis up with some positive tail pitch at servo neutral, for that rate mode thing.
For about the last 5 years I've changed to 0 tail pitch at servo neutral on my 550s, 450s and 180s.
I prefer the symmetrical mechanical travel available for the servo and tail pitch slider.
I let the gyros/FBL controllers figure out what they need to do to keep the helis from spinning.
I don't fly rate mode anyway (on the helis that have rate mode).
Have not had a single issue doing this.
Maybe for smack-3D this is an issue (?)
Just out of curiosity, when you are spooling up on the ground, does the fbl unit keep the heli from spinning? I'm not saying one way or another is correct, I'm just curious how things respond on the ground.
Jun 03, 2019, 10:23 PM
Registered User
After I set my heli down (before spooling up) I make sure the tail blades have zero pitch. Usually they’re pegged at one extreme from walking the heli out to the launch area. I don’t get spin outs- the tail gyros will do their thing when lifting off. If not I would go back to the rate mode setup. Besides, setting the tail for some amount of servo neutral pitch is really only valid for a certain head speed & resulting torque.
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Jun 05, 2019 at 08:49 AM.


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