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Sep 07, 2001, 02:12 PM
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Small Dare Fokker D-VIII Kit Question?


I have developed an uncontrollable lust for the Fokker D-VIII, and have been looking at various kits at internet sites and at the LHS. I'll probably end up building more than one D-VIII kit once I get started. The one that I thought of starting with is the small Dare version (~20-inch wingspan), and then move on to a larger one later. All of my R/C craft to date have been foam-based ARFs, so I have no experience working with balsa kits. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with the small Dare D-VIII, and if this would be considered an appropriate "beginner" balsa kit? I plan to build it very slowly over the winter months, learning as I go, and try to fly it next spring.
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Sep 07, 2001, 04:22 PM
Registered User
If the small kits are anything like the Dare Speed 400 models designed by Pat Trittle, they are definately meant for experienced builders. The instructions are not all that detailed. Since you admit you have no experience with balsa construction, you may want to stay away from this model until you get a few under your belt. Unfortunately, I can't think of any easy to build models of the Fokker DIII.
Sep 07, 2001, 04:24 PM
Designing on the edge
AerodromeRC's Avatar
Dave:
I have quite a few Dare kits and they are all nice kits but they all have one thing in common, poor instructions. You are required to study the plans very very carefully. Even then it is advisable to have built other kits so you have a basis of skills.

Many of the Guillows kits are good too. They are die cut and parts may not fit very well but the plans and instructions are good. I build these just for fun and have converted the SE5a to electric. I built 7 or so of these to get my skills sharpened up for my Dare Fokker DVII.

Dumas kits are good also but they tend to be a little more advanced in skills required.

I would also recommend the 24" Herr Fokker DVII as a good starter plane. It is laser cut and has excellent construction. The instructions have no illustrations but are complete.

You may also want to get a book on balsa kit building. I have one by Don Ross. "Building and flying rubber model airplanes" is the title ( I think) Amazon.com has it.

Kurt
Sep 07, 2001, 06:39 PM
EB-66C Team Member
J Morgan's Avatar
Kurt is right. Dare's kits are NOT the place to start.If you do, then figure many posts on E-Zone to figure the instructions out. They really are builder's kits. Guillows are great to start on but have heavy wood. They do have good instructions though and are very scalelike. They look great when built-flying is another story. I built many of these years ago, either IC free flight or IC single channel rc( showing my age!) To get a Guillow's kit to fly electric, you have to replace alot of wood. Herr's kits are laser cut and frame up in no time. Wood is alot better. Instructions are good and there are several posts on elec for them. I'd say practice on a couple of cheap Guillow's kits and then elec. a Herr's. It's alot of fun just building them. Good luck, you're venturing into a very satisfying segment of this great hobby.
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Sep 08, 2001, 09:17 AM
Registered User
Thanks to all for the excellent advice. It sounds as if the logical progression here is to buy one of the books on balsa kit building (which I believe I've seen at the LHS), build a Guillows kit or two for practice, build and electrify a Herr Fokker DVII and then take on the Dare DVIII. That should take care of me for the winter!

By the way, I have done enough construction with wood and foam in lightweight slowflyers to have experimented with a lot of different types of glues looking for the strongest and lightest. The one that I like the best for strength and light weight is Super Phatic. Just wondering if those experienced in lightweight balsa construction would agree that Super Phatic is the way to go. I do not like using epoxy or CA, but do like Probond and Titebond for some uses. Am I on the right track for balsa construction?
Sep 08, 2001, 09:37 AM
EB-66C Team Member
J Morgan's Avatar
Dave
I use a product from Tower Hobbies called Quicksand. Comes in a large bottle that will last a long time. It's an aliphatic glue that dries resonably fast and is easy to sand. Pick up Don Ross's book on flying rubber modls. He updated it for electrifying small models. You might also check on Peter Raake's Fokker D-VIII that was a free plan in EFI awhile back. He's also had some posts on E-zone lately about his plans. His D-VIII is a sp400 that looks like an easy build. Either buy two plans( one for parts) or make copies of parts so you can glue stick on balsa to cut out . Then simply peel off the paper. Good luck. Building stick and tissue models is a great stress relief exercise. You might try Hannan's Runway or Peck Polymers also for info or small kits.
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Sep 09, 2001, 05:45 PM
E6
E6
Registered User
Hi Dave,

I was reading your post and like you I had an itch to build a DVIII. My previous experience has been lots of foam and a Tiny. I currently have the Dare Fokker DVIII about 85% complete. Haven't been makeing time to complete it. I don't think it's that difficult to build. You do need to study the plans and the instructions assumes you have built before. Most of my questions were answered at my LHS but I did give Pat a call and he was more than happy to answer questions.

Once I figured out what to do nothing was that difficult, just time consuming.

I think someone with little experience could figure this kit out with a little help. Have you looked at any SR kits? They're suppose to be great flyers and from what I hear and seen the instructions seem very clear. Go to there website and download the pdf and you'll see what I mean. It seems like Larry shares years of experience and know how in the instructions.


regars,
Al
Sep 10, 2001, 01:34 PM
Balsa Flies Better!
A DVIII is something of a challenging rubber subject- short nose- parasol wing which makes construction a bit painful. However, Penn Valley Hobby Center (This shop is one of the best in FF in the country.) has a couple of small rubber kits that will have decent wood, not break the bank, and one of them actually flies pretty well- I think it's the Megow's. I've gotten mine to do over 40 sec. Go as big as you can. If you want to start flying rubber as a start- I'd recommend Golden Age models- great wood (occasionally a little too light) the planes all fly (some are trickier to build than others) and they have good tissue and these kits are cheap. (no laser cutting and don't bother to suggest it.) The old age advice of start with a high wing cabin plane still works well. The serious rubber guys swear by these kits. Guillow's stuff is an exercise in frustration. Herr's stuff is OK, occasionally a little heavy, and often needs some mods- i.e. move the motor peg forward.

By the way- there is a Ben Buckle kit of a D8 from Earl Stahl's plans (I think.)that's pretty close to the same size as the larger Dare version, but I'll bet it's heavier. I've gathered the kit is ummm challenging. The last Ben Buckle kit I fought with was definitely a harder build than a Dare kit.

Sam
Nov 05, 2003, 11:15 PM
Registered User
Kevin Murray's Avatar
Sam is this Ben Buckle kit something that is in production or oe yousaw in the Penn shop ?
Nov 07, 2003, 01:20 PM
Registered User
The smaller Dare D-8 (18" or 21" inch span free flight) is not a Pat Tritle design, but a laser cut version of the R/N models Fokker D-8, which is also found as a print wood kit packaged with an SE-5a. Its a good kit, but not a beginner kit. You'll have to carve the nose block to shape, establish strut mount locations and determine proper incidence etc. You might also wan to check out the DPC models D-8 which allegedly features a clear wire strut mounting method. Do a search for DPCmodels.
Nov 07, 2003, 02:36 PM
Obstinate spurious drone
jeff edmondson's Avatar
R/N kits at ....

http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/

DPC models at...

http://www.dpcmodels.homestead.com/

also Gulliows, Sterling and Comet kitted some small D.VIII's (still bigger than peanut scale).


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