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May 17, 2019, 06:43 AM
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I can't afford carbon either, call it bonus cash i got (that happens once every 30 years or so) So another 30 to go before the next So something tells me my future spars will be alu and wood ..
(i'm not half a century old Yet) haha.

Streamlined ? eee... yes and no.... i can tell you practically this plane glides very well, it does not retain energy like a sleek f5B for instance, however it has much lower drag than a downspout fuse... you refering to the servos,wires, LG and receiver sticking out... Again i'm confident it will do 130mph. But Yes it won't have super Sleek F3B competition type of energy retention.

(and i hear what you say, you say at 100mph things change, dont forget i heard what you said)

(i might have to see how "exponential" it gets at 100mph plus, but i'm positive, perhaps i will be wrong and too optimistic and get a i told you so, who knows...but we'll see.)
Last edited by Axefly; May 17, 2019 at 06:58 AM.
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May 17, 2019, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Sports
I'd bolt the wing to the fuse. One at the front and one at the back (or a hook at one end and a single bolt at the other). Same for the tail feathers. If you drill and tap into the aluminum, it will still be quick release; certainly quicker than any of your options. I do all my bigger planes that way.
Ok that sounds promising, do you perhaps have a quicker or easier way than TRF's wing to do so, or should i use his method and one bolt, but this will be a tube carbon spar. The lip/hook at the trailing edge i was thinking of using metal dish cloth hooks (that cloth you use to dry your dishes) You get these metal hooks for it.

Also putting a bolt through the Alu will make it weaker and those are the areas where the frame will break in a crash, however, i'm willing to live with that if the quick release idea will work nicely without too much hassle.
Last edited by Axefly; May 17, 2019 at 06:54 AM.
May 17, 2019, 08:25 AM
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What I usually do is to make a very thick rib from scrap foam at the center of the wing. This stops the bolt from crushing the rib profile. Technically you only need it in the area around the bolt, so you can use a bit of wood instead (which is much stronger in compression too).

The bolt hole won't really weaken the alu much - any material removed from the center of a beam has little impact on the second moment of inertia and hence the bending strength. Just use a 3mm or at most a 4mm bolt.

Yup, you could use an L-shaped clothes hook in place of one of the bolts, but getting it properly adjusted will probably be more effort that just using a second bolt in a tapped hole.

Taps and dies are really useful bits of kit for RC if you don't have any. I bought a cheap set years ago, and use them regularly.
May 17, 2019, 11:52 AM
Call me Frosty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axefly

So i like your solid construction TRF it's strong and solid, i can't see it being light and it must be somewhat hair raising launching it with the added weight especially because the wing is only 36 inches, you got some wing loading going there, however, i can see that making it more solid in the air which is sometimes nice to have.

I will build one such as yours at some stage, however still trying to source canadian pipe, we only have the big square pipe.
I built the Flipper "Deluxe" version from the plans and it has a 48" wingspan. I also used the bigger square gutter pipe for the fuse. I don't remember hand launches being a problem.


The attached pic is the before pic of the wing from the posts above.
May 18, 2019, 01:30 AM
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Thanks for sharing your idea ES,

I am thinking about a way to use a clamp style to hold down directly the spar, then i do not have to put any stress at all on the wing itself, (except for a TE bolt which i will do as per your suggestion and not use a hook. So with a clamp i just cut the middle of the wing open, just a narrow path from LE to TE and put the clamp on the spar with the bolts in place sticking out the bottom skin of the wing ready for nuts /or even wing nuts on the bottom of the alu channel to fasten it, then just close the top middle skin cutout up afterwards.
Just not sure what metal i could use, this clamp material in the pic seems a bit weak.

3mm bolts sounds good
Last edited by Axefly; May 18, 2019 at 01:48 AM.
May 18, 2019, 01:33 AM
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Or a clamp or some type of metal that is wider (the part that goes over the spar) picture the spanner as an extension of the clamp on the spar, just a bit shorter

But again, where do i get such metal or something off the shelf that might work like the clamp itself.
Last edited by Axefly; May 18, 2019 at 01:47 AM.
May 18, 2019, 01:39 AM
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@TRF

Really you used the big square gutter ? Pics are misleading, i think the dia is 70 ot 80mm ?

Well if so that's great to know, i will then definitely build one in the near future then i have the best of both worlds, an easy to work with square gutter fuselage plane and a narrow low drag alu channel fuselage, thats great

I made a 50mm fuse pipe plane in the past, still have it for future use, i found it looking nice no fun to work with, but just heavier than the alu channel plane.. But like you say heavier doesn't mean bad, it flies great, just needs a bit more runway, and a square fuse is going to be easier to work with.. thanks.
Last edited by Axefly; May 18, 2019 at 01:50 AM.
May 18, 2019, 06:38 AM
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1) That spar clamping system can work as long as you have a second attachment point at the TE to stop the wing from rotating. However, the downside is that, in a hard crash, all the energy of the impact will run through that clamp into the spar, probably breaking it. If it were me, I'd rather have the correx tear and keep my expensive spar for another day.

2) "narrow low drag alu channel fuselage". With all the electronics and wires our in the breeze....for real? I think you need to read up on drag . I know you think it too much work, but just make a simple box fuse from 3mm correx. It will take less time than you've used up making all these posts and will outperform an alu and gutter pipe fuse on every dimension I gave up on gutter pipes and alu a long time ago. More weight and more work than correx.
May 19, 2019, 03:24 AM
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Well practical results don't lie, i've flown gutter and alu and correx fuselages and am actively flying alu now, the alu is definitively low drag and definitely narrow regardless of things sticking out, Yes it's not super carbon design smooth with perfect lines and the ultimate LOW in drag frames,and with things sticking out.

BUT we are talking small scale compared to what is out there, the difference between it and gutter is astounding, even compared to the round pvc fuse i made as per above pic and correx fuselage.

Perhaps your experience is different, mine definitely is, the principles of drag comes into play more at bigger scales, not saying it does not in small scales, it's just not that evident in smaller scale.

I have built a square correx narrow box fuselage, could not feel the difference between it and the alu fuselage. hence sticking with alu it feels more solid especially with the carbon added, i like that (the correx fuse just excuse the mess, am currently cleaning something else)

(Yes have not thought about the expensive spar breaking should there be a hard impact, will keep that in mind thx)

Using a clamp is just so tempting....will have to ponder on that for a while.
Last edited by Axefly; May 23, 2019 at 11:49 AM.
May 19, 2019, 10:12 AM
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There is also a smaller sized electric fence post that would be half way between for drag and hiding the servos a bit better. I still haven't figured out how to hide the tank in it.
May 20, 2019, 10:44 AM
Call me Frosty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axefly
@TRF

Really you used the big square gutter ? Pics are misleading, i think the dia is 70 ot 80mm ?
Well, I guess "big" is relative to the materials you can get in your area. The big gutter pipe here is 2.5 inches (63.5mm) wide . What we call "Canadian" gutter pipe here has a thinner wall and is 2 3/8" (60.325mm) wide.

I did add a extension bay cover to the right side of the fuse up front because the A123 batteries were too wide for 2.5" gutter pipe. It's hard to make out in the pics though.
May 21, 2019, 01:55 PM
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I need to go measure our square pipe again. But it might be wider than 63mm, its been a long time since i've flown one but i do recall it being solid and heavier with more drag but it was really nice to work with

and good in the wind picking up and now that i see you are getting up to 130 plus mph out of it, should be fun, my gutter fuselages were longer though so i can chop off a bit of weight stilI i do like my u channel frame, but do like variety

that is why i will build a square gutter one if ours is not wider than yours will see.

Do you still fly yours ?
May 21, 2019, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspeed
There is also a smaller sized electric fence post that would be half way between for drag and hiding the servos a bit better. I still haven't figured out how to hide the tank in it.
Heard lots about fence post still can't find any, well all i find is 500mm long pieces that looks like narrow carbon rods but are much heavier, would be nice to compare them to alu U channel if i can find any.
May 21, 2019, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axefly

Do you still fly yours ?
Nah, I never rebuilt it after the last crash in 2011.

Here is my crash write up from back then:

before

after

motor embedded into ground at the crash site

photos of the damage before dis-assembly

a jumble of wires

End pins pulled out of receiver

CC 45HV ESC damage

From the condition of the wires I think they experienced a "Thermal Event"

The protruding rear shaft from the motor punctured one of the A123 cells. Amazingly the pack was still putting out voltage at the connector minus the voltage of the one punctured cell.

It pancaked all of the cells in both packs (2 5S A123 packs used in series)


The motor has a bent shaft. The Optima 7 receiver has the end pins pulled off the board, the case popped open, and the BODA part of the antenna ripped off the antenna wire. The fuse is toast. The wing is probably repairable, although a hinge is split, so maybe not. The ESC is probably dead. The GPS receiver is working intermittently. One 5S A123 is probably OK even though the cells are squished. I would not trust using the cells out of the 5S A123 pack shown in the pictures. A lots of torn/missing insulation on various wires.

The servos survived. The 2S A123 1100mah receiver pack survived, although the unused JST connector on it is busted up - wonder how that happend.
May 22, 2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axefly
Heard lots about fence post still can't find any, well all i find is 500mm long pieces that looks like narrow carbon rods but are much heavier, would be nice to compare them to alu U channel if i can find any.
They come in 4 ft. pieces and weight 292g. 1" x 1 1/2" rectangular. There is 2 outside radius' and two sharp corners which are also raised about 3/16" and have notches every 1 1/16" to support the zapping wire I guess. There is a part # on mine 200-260. I got mine at a TSC store here (Tractor Supply Co.) It is an American company with stores in Canada too. I have not seen it stocked lately. https://www.tscstores.com/Zareba-Mul...er-P17385.aspx It is a black colour, and seems to bend a bit and stay there somewhat. I think if you store it with stress it will hold that shape until you bend it back if you know what I mean. I have not seen many pics of planes using it other than a plane called the Phencepost. I have not used mine because there just seems like no place to put the tank, much like the aluminum square tubing. I had also seen a much bigger white post that might work on a weedwacker size powered plane that is used for railings. They are maybe 3-4" square but I never bought any for some reason. Too expensive or it was bundled with other parts or whatever. There was smaller 1 1/2" or so cross section pieces too. I don't like the big planes anyway. This is all I could find on the plane
Aerial RC Combat- Phencepost Style!- Fayetteville RC Club (11 min 48 sec)
Not real pretty.
Last edited by aspeed; May 22, 2019 at 10:42 AM.


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