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Jul 25, 2019, 11:44 AM
R_G
R_G
UFO Driver
R_G's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1484
The 1/2 A Flight Streak gets my vote .

Mike1484
I had one of those back in the day. Great little airplane! Tons of fun!

Ralph
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Jul 25, 2019, 11:57 AM
ama 1390
pval3's Avatar
Do the little satan
Plans available on outerzone
Jul 25, 2019, 10:32 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
I want a stunter, but in parallel ill be doing lil satan. I have a spare blavk widow, so another guy here, so we will start building lil satan's for combat
Jul 28, 2019, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brankommander
I have a spare blavk widow, so another guy here, so we will start building lil satan's for combat
Watch out! Tanked Bees and variants (black/gold/silver) are long engines that put the CG almost on the leading edge. They'll fly stable, but change direction slowly. Going horseshoe-backed and in-wing tank will handle better. Or use plywood for the rear booms, stretch them back an inch or so to get some weight in the back.


http://flyinglines.org/kb.widosatan.html

And there is one on CoxEngineForum too.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t1268...-a-power-plant
Jul 29, 2019, 09:31 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 944_jim
Watch out! Tanked Bees and variants (black/gold/silver) are long engines that put the CG almost on the leading edge. They'll fly stable, but change direction slowly. Going horseshoe-backed and in-wing tank will handle better. Or use plywood for the rear booms, stretch them back an inch or so to get some weight in the back.


http://flyinglines.org/kb.widosatan.html

And there is one on CoxEngineForum too.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t1268...-a-power-plant
Exactly, noted that with previous planes with baby bees. What i do is to maintain the propeller, so most of time have to cut the fuse at front. Maybe on the lil satan, since is short nosed, maybe i have to make te mount a little "inside" the wing
Jul 29, 2019, 09:51 PM
Registered User
Watch out for how far back you go...mine is right on the leading edge and still too nose heavy.

Also note that the bellcrank will start getting in your way. The guy on CEF has an in-wing tank one bay to the right of center. If I built this one again, I'd place the bellcrank as far left as possible just to free up the center for an in-wing tank right behind the engine. Then I'd be sure to use longer booms made of plywood. I would NOT cut the leading edge in order to move the engine back any further. Or I'd upsize the plans and scratchbuild a bit bigger to offset the weight of the engine a bit...say scaled up for a 24 or 26 inch wing. That would put more weight on the back end.
Jul 30, 2019, 12:46 PM
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Thread OP
Excelent advice, will see the plans and consider the following: put the engine as far back i can maintaing wing rigidity. If not enough back, will enlarge the fuse at rear (booms) but enlarge elevator also in order to not-lose agility
Aug 01, 2019, 11:09 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 944_jim
Watch out! Tanked Bees and variants (black/gold/silver) are long engines that put the CG almost on the leading edge. They'll fly stable, but change direction slowly. Going horseshoe-backed and in-wing tank will handle better. Or use plywood for the rear booms, stretch them back an inch or so to get some weight in the back.


http://flyinglines.org/kb.widosatan.html

And there is one on CoxEngineForum too.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t1268...-a-power-plant
That's worthy advice. But in practice it never seemed to be an issue. The weight of the wing behind the engine always seemed to produce a good flyable CG location. My own Lil' Satan and later 1/2A combat models all had the engine mounts right on the leading edge and they all flew well. When built to around 5 to 6 oz flying weight the wing seemed to always be heavy enough to ensure a decent CG location.

Attached below is the design that I ended up with. It's my own design which blended the construction method of my buddy's "George" with the look of a then popular .35 size design. The higher aspect ratio turned out to be a winner. The model shown easily does a vertical 8 starting from about 4 feet off the ground and still well shy of going over the top of the circle.

There's also a second picture showing the way we flipped the tank backplate and crankcase around to protect the cylinder from eating a lot of dirt and to protect the needle valves from being constantly broken off. It's sort of similar to the setup shown on the Lil' Satan plan but with the needle being on the inboard side it's MUCH easier to reach for adjusting. The fuel line is run so it is out at the extreme outboard side of the tank with this setup. Also instead of the vents sitting sideways like the Lil' Satan plan shows we turned them so the vents were up and down so fuel didn't constantly run out while starting the engine. It's only four screws and a bit of fuel line.

And if anyone is interested I can email or otherwise post plans for this model. The plans are in four files that print out on legal size paper and produce a "T" shaped building plan. So no big size paper or need for commercial printing.
Aug 01, 2019, 12:28 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Look really amazing, huge wing. Most 1/2A tend to stall on tight maneuvers, seems like you can ivercome that with your plane
Aug 01, 2019, 01:50 PM
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toad007's Avatar
What is the name of these ?
Aug 01, 2019, 02:04 PM
Registered User
I should have given a 'plug' for the Kiel Kraft Radian; with TeeDee power it definitely needed 35' lines... Stunting potential still unproven though.
Aug 01, 2019, 11:28 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brankommander
Look really amazing, huge wing. Most 1/2A tend to stall on tight maneuvers, seems like you can ivercome that with your plane
It's not small. But not really big either. The main panel is 22x4 3/8". Then the tips are half circles. So the whole span is 26 3/8" . That sounds like a lot. But remember that the chord is only 4 3/8". So in terms of wing area it's not a huge amount. But then it's clearly bigger than a lot of the usual 18 to 20 inch span stuff. And in the end it's all about the weight. For a reed valve engine if we want good aerobatic performance we want the model to be less than 8 oz. These combat wings of mine tipped the scales at 6 oz.

Toad, no idea on what those are/were called. But they are clearly bigger models and running with TeeDee engines. I would not want to put a reed engine on one of those and expect good performance. They are big enough, and likely heavy enough that they'll need ever rev they can get from the TeeDee's.
Aug 02, 2019, 07:36 AM
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toad007's Avatar
I flew that red one yesterday. on the stock td, no pressure on a 6x3 rubber ducky on 42ft lines. A first for me since I was a fat teen. Thing was a blast, had plenty line tension. Fast little pecker.
turns on a dime, total weight is 6.5 oz. This was so fun I may convert to cl only.
I cant wait until my new Sonic Chickens get here after Jeff is done playing at the grabber.
Aug 02, 2019, 10:04 PM
Registered User
Has anyone tried the Russian 1/2A combat planes? They are sold by 10s and 20s. I really like the .15 size ones. I imagine they would be good with a TD. Maybe a bit too hot with the Foras. This year I have had more fun with control line than RC. Seem to be having more problems and crashes with the RCs.
Aug 03, 2019, 12:37 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aspeed
Has anyone tried the Russian 1/2A combat planes? They are sold by 10s and 20s. I really like the .15 size ones. I imagine they would be good with a TD. Maybe a bit too hot with the Foras. This year I have had more fun with control line than RC. Seem to be having more problems and crashes with the RCs.
With combat models flown for sport there's no such thing as "too hot". Speed is part of the fun. And if it's a bit too much fun in terms of lap times then use slightly longer lines.

If pure solo fun flying is the goal and the model can be built very lightly with little crash resistance then a good reedie model could be done with around a 28 to 30 inch span and around 130 to 140 square inches of area to come in at around 5 ounces. Such a model would fly superbly. And with a 5x4 prop should fly fast enough to have reasonable tension on around 32 to 35 ft lines.

For a good TeeDee or Fora model for pure solo fun flying I'd be asking toad for some size measurements to go along with the 6.5 ounce information. And if such a model could be lightly built to the same size and just 6 oz the performance would be staggering.


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