Thread Tools
Apr 17, 2019, 09:25 AM
Phil.T-tailer
Phil.Taylor's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tewatson
Is there a facepalm flight mode?

Tom
Its next to the caps lock & shift keys - but you have to have the capability to program that-and the knowledge to do so 

Phil.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Apr 17, 2019, 02:22 PM
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Good one.

It comes down to this, in my pea sized brain:
Does this method of flying have any contest wins under its belt? Are any notably successful pilots using this technique?
If the answer to both of the above questions is no, then why is that? Likely it isn't the best way to get the best performance.

From my meager experience, lift always acts as a repellant to the plane, pushing it away, by either roll or yaw.
Having a circle mode won't work because of that, since every thermal I've ever flown in is either vastly or at least slightly different from all previous ones. Which happens to be my personal reason to find thermal flying so interesting in the first place.
This idea has merit, but it's never going to be executable the way it is hoped without some complicated gyro system, and that defeats the entire challenge of flying line of sight. Just go get a drone.
I do change my elevator trim individually in each flight mode based on smoothness of the air/thermal/conditions. But I'll handle the bank and yaw (and elevator corrections) within each circle myself. I can't imagine a circle mode program working. It's too dynamic especially in bumpy air.

R,
Target
Last edited by target; Apr 17, 2019 at 02:28 PM.
Apr 17, 2019, 02:23 PM
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil alvirez
k. i. s. s.?
Fail!
Even acronyms are to be capitalized, Phil.
Apr 17, 2019, 02:52 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
post 18
from post 1:
how you trim your sailplane for thermaling?
that is, if you want it to sail into a thermal, how it glides?
just flat?
straight?
turning at certain radius?
if so, what radius for a given wingspan?
why?
thanks
please, just answers to the questions.
Apr 17, 2019, 03:04 PM
Phil.T-tailer
Phil.Taylor's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by target
Good one.

every thermal I've ever flown in is either vastly or at least slightly different from all previous ones. Which happens to be my personal reason to find thermal flying so interesting in the first place.
Absolutely agree.
All thermals are different - big ones - small ones high ones - low ones - strong ones - weak ones - rough ones - smooth ones - tight ones - and thats the challenge I enjoy.
and avoiding the sink around the edges...

I know where Phil A is coming from - free-flight soaring has its own challenges - been there a very long time ago - but with RC soaring - why fly it like free-flight?

Phil.
Apr 17, 2019, 03:08 PM
Phil.T-tailer
Phil.Taylor's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil alvirez
post 18
from post 1:
how you trim your sailplane for thermaling?
that is, if you want it to sail into a thermal, how it glides?
just flat?
straight?
turning at certain radius?
if so, what radius for a given wingspan?
why?
thanks
please, just answers to the questions.
@Phil A - we are answering your questions - we are telling you why we dont fly our RC sailplanes like free-flighters. This is an RC soaring forum
Apr 17, 2019, 03:27 PM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Target, one other way a thermal effects a sailplane is, the ship speeds up. If you go across the center of the lift, versus on the edge, your ship should have the tail rise and gain energy. Now, if the ship is really off on CG (read to far forward) you might not see it. But if the CG is correct, it can really take off, then pull baby, pull.

Marc
Apr 17, 2019, 06:43 PM
Mark LSF # 3792
You guys are right on. RC soaring is not free flight! To find a thermal one must first allow the airplane to tell you what the air is doing in the area of a thermal. If the the sailplane is trimmed to fly only in circles it will never send you any of the signals it is near or in one.

Some of these signals are unintended yaw, roll, and increase of energy (increased speed). Once seen/detected then one can attempt to locate that thermal and keep the airplane flying within it. A static trim setting will never achieve the same success at that as a skilled thermal pilot. One may as well just fly free flight without the radio...
Apr 17, 2019, 07:06 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil.Taylor
@Phil A - we are answering your questions - we are telling you why we dont fly our RC sailplanes like free-flighters. This is an RC soaring forum
i was talking about the post 18 where he is not doing it.
see:
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil alvirez
k. i. s. s.?
his answer:
Fail!
Even acronyms are to be capitalized, Phil.

that has nothing to do with what am asking.
capish?
Apr 17, 2019, 07:17 PM
Registered User
Thread OP

read what i said before.


and i trim the plane once is in a thermal-not before.
the way i do it is what i do as when i flew free flight: at the verge of a stall.
and of course, if the thermal vanishes or drifts, i have to compensate and give it some down and search for another.
look: from post 2:
" i trim my sailplanes to turn on the smallest circle without diving or getting into a spin; at their minimum sinking speed.
and near the edge of a stall. this means that the plane is going into oscillations, like waves, pointing slightly up for a few moments, and when is about to stall, it changes attitude and moves its nose a little bit down .
this way, when detecting the slightest 'up' air, when at the moment of having its nose up, instead of changing to slight nose down, it continues going up with the thermal."
i dont think this conflicts with the way we fly with radio control.
Last edited by phil alvirez; Apr 17, 2019 at 07:25 PM.
Apr 17, 2019, 08:04 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
i think is time to make this clear:
1-i started this thread with the purpose of hearing how some trim their planes.
i asked:
"how you trim your sailplane for thermaling?
that is, if you want it to sail into a thermal, how it glides?
just flat?
straight?
turning at certain radius?
if so, what radius for a given wingspan?
why?
thanks
please, just answers to the questions. "
2-and said it very clear: please, just answers to the questions.
then, on post 2 i said:
" what i do
perhaps if i tell what i do and why, may bring comments based on others experiences.
i trim my sailplanes to turn on the smallest circle without diving or getting into a spin; at their minimum sinking speed.
and near the edge of a stall. this means that the plane is going into oscillations, like waves, pointing slightly up for a few moments, and when is about to stall, it changes attitude and moves its nose a little bit down .
this way, when detecting the slightest 'up' air, when at the moment of having its nose up, instead of changing to slight nose down, it continues going up with the thermal.
i learned this at the days when i flew free flight.
so once finding a thermal, there is little that i need to do. it is a free flight plane going on its own, and i only need to do something if it is drifting too far.
so, how you do yours? "
then on post 14 i got this:
" How do you not start a sentence with a capital letter? "
i resent this. nobody has the right to question me how i write nothing. if you dont like how i do it, go away. and remember that i asked very clear on post 1: please, just answers to the questions
then on post 9 he told me:
" Phil - its ok for you to "trim" your RC sailplane like a free-flight - so it flies hands off circling in a thermal - as you have described. But - the moment you try flying straight ahead with that "trim" - the plane will stall because of the up "trim" to keep it circling. i.e. You will need to re-trim with some down trim to fly straight and level.
Meanwhile - most RC sailplane pilots do it the other way around - trim for straight flight, then when in a thermal manually input up elevator and/or aileron & rudder to keep it circling nicely. But - its ok to be different ! "
i never said that i trim my planes like a free flight.. read again what i said on post 2.
then on post 18 he is back. i resent this.
then on post 20 Phil is back with this:
"I know where Phil A is coming from - free-flight soaring has its own challenges - been there a very long time ago - but with RC soaring - why fly it like free-flight?"
i resent this. i never said that. read post 2 again. what is he trying to do?
now again on post 21:
"@Phil A - we are answering your questions - we are telling you why we dont fly our RC sailplanes like free-flighters. This is an RC soaring forum"
now he is telling me that this is an rc forum. i never said that, and i know this is an rc forum. i resent this again.
now on post 23 another guy is telling me this:
"You guys are right on. RC soaring is not free flight! "
where he got this? i never said that. is he not reading what i said on post 2 and the others?
i dont need this. i will close this thread and let it rest for a while and will re-open it and see if these feloows are gone and other come with positive comments with their experience, which is the purpose of this thread.
until then...
it is sad to have to close a thread due to some fellows that not only are not contributing, but just trolling.
and, a final quote:
"through all my life, i always have been amazed of the tremendous effort humans put trying to make my life miserable.
and how miserably they have failed! "
Last edited by phil alvirez; Jun 21, 2019 at 07:24 AM.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Trimming for a climbing turn -- a simple question for those w/ free-flight experience aeronaut999 Modeling Science 3 Jan 19, 2019 11:43 PM
Discussion Cheap/compact thermal imaging for smartphones, someone should mod this for FPV londez FPV Equipment 9 Jan 26, 2016 04:05 AM
Help! Trim issue: ZMR250 wants to flip with centered trim? Glitch5618 Multirotor Drone Electronics 7 Nov 04, 2015 02:18 AM
Discussion Setting Trim/Sub-Trim for 450Quad on KK board CADQuad Multirotor Drone Talk 4 Nov 18, 2014 01:17 PM
Question Thermal Turn Trim Settings David McNeill Thermal 14 Sep 28, 2005 08:42 AM