View Poll Results: Vote one of three options for each proposal.
n) Mid air, in favor 9 34.62%
n) Mid air, opposed 14 53.85%
n) Mid air, neutral 3 11.54%
o) Flight time, in favor 20 76.92%
o) Flight time, opposed 5 19.23%
o) Flight time, neutral 1 3.85%
p) Prep time, in favor 11 42.31%
p) Prep time,opposed 7 26.92%
p) Prep time, neutral 8 30.77%
q) Test time, in favor 8 30.77%
q) Test time, opposed 8 30.77%
q) Test time, neutral 9 34.62%
r) Test time, in favor 6 23.08%
r) Test time, opposed 12 46.15%
r) Test time, neutral 7 26.92%
s) Final score, in favor 10 38.46%
s) Final score, opposed 9 34.62%
s) Final score, neutral 7 26.92%
t) Fly-off, in favor 4 15.38%
t) Fly-off, opposed 9 34.62%
t) Fly-off, neutral 13 50.00%
u) Task D, in favor 9 34.62%
u) Task D, opposed 12 46.15%
u) Task D, neutral 5 19.23%
v) Task E, in favor 8 30.77%
v) Task E, opposed 15 57.69%
v) Task E, neutral 3 11.54%
w) Task L, in favor 10 38.46%
w) Task L, opposed 9 34.62%
w) Task L, neutral 6 23.08%
x) Task L, in favor 14 53.85%
x) Task L, opposed 5 19.23%
x) Task L, neutral 6 23.08%
y) Task M, in favor 6 23.08%
y) Task M, opposed 14 53.85%
y) Task M, neutral 4 15.38%
z) Task M, in favor 12 46.15%
z) Task M, opposed 5 19.23%
z) Task M, neutral 10 38.46%
aa) Task N, in favor 7 26.92%
aa) Task N, opposed 15 57.69%
aa) Task N, neutral 4 15.38%
ab) Task O, in favor 11 42.31%
ab) Task O, opposed 6 23.08%
ab) Task O, neutral 9 34.62%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Feb 20, 2019, 01:30 PM
Terry Edmonds
Thread OP
Poll

2019 FAI Rules Proposals


This year there are proposals for F3B and F3K on the CIAM agenda. Attached are the F3K proposals and a poll created. The proposals are in two files due to file space limitations. Please only USA participants vote. A similar posting will be done in the Multi Task F3X forum for the the F3B proposals. Also attached are proposals for the General Section and if you have comments on any of these post here or send directly to me.
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Feb 20, 2019, 02:44 PM
Registered User
eitanro's Avatar
Some new tasks proposals are interesting, but most are not (IMO).
I can clearly see some rules "migrating" from F3J that will make the contest slower and longer... F3K is suppose to be very dynamic and energetic, I would love to keep it that way even though I'm getting older and I am not as flexible and fast as I used to be.

Eitan
Feb 20, 2019, 02:56 PM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
Very interesting proposals!
Almost all directed at making F3K more challenging!
Feb 20, 2019, 03:57 PM
hot air rises...
jfinch's Avatar
I didn't think we could make Poker any more terrible... I might be wrong. lol

It sounds like most of these new tasks were discussed in Croatia and Ukraine. I know Doug was involved in these discussions in Croatia. Was anyone from the USA involved in Ukraine? Have been so absent from the group that I missed discussion of these here? I like most of these new task proposals, but kinda surprised to not see more discussion earlier.
Feb 20, 2019, 04:00 PM
hot air rises...
jfinch's Avatar
The dead space before the round starts and only 30 sec to test fly are fine for large team protected contests but all it will do is slow down local ones. It's very common to see folks just entering the field with 30 sec before start horn because they were helping someone in the previous round...
Feb 20, 2019, 04:36 PM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
I dont like 15 minute tasks. In Ukraine we flew an all up round of 5 flights, it was long and ate up too much time. I rather have more rounds than fewer rounds with longer flights.
I also don’t like making excruciatingly long and mostly boring flights, I prefer tasks with multiple flights rather than a 10 minute or two 5 minute flights. I believe that if you have air for a 4 minute flight, most of the time there will be air for even longer flights and I prefer a task like 2 last flights over a single throw to a 10 minute flight...just sounds like poker in good conditions and if the conditions are good, most WC level pilot will call a 10 min flight for poker anyways so why another “poker” task...
Less drops - YES!
Midairs during launch? Hell yes!, but also for being SAMed.
Feb 20, 2019, 05:24 PM
Kyle Clayton
Wave Glider's Avatar
I need to look at these more thoroughly, but giving a quick cursory glance, overall I'd say that most of these proposals look pretty good, and I like the new tasks suggested.
Latest blog entry: Helios and XXLite DLG
Feb 20, 2019, 08:27 PM
Registered User
Roy_N's Avatar
This is a double edge sword we're playing with here. Please remember the new guy. Not everyone can max out the tasks we have today. Making the tasks harder for the few elite may scare away the newby. This is what happened to power pylon racing, now pylon racing with powered planes is dying if not dead in many places. Perhaps create a new class to challenge these expert pilots, don't make it too hard for the newby or you won't get any new pilots.
Feb 20, 2019, 09:11 PM
Registered User
Don C's Avatar
I agree with Roy. Iíve cd the nats, team select, and local contest. Making the task in a lot of cases is a result of weather conditions. Last weekend in Florida with out checking I suspect most fliers didnít make the full task. Most of the times because of wind conditions. Also 15 minutes on the field is a long time. I can see adding additional task instead of replacing the current task and making it cds decision. Iím concerned that if we are not careful we will go the way of TD and lose so many fliers. We need to focus on adding fliers not scare them off with impossible task.

Don C
Feb 20, 2019, 10:21 PM
Registered User
clintc's Avatar
I’m not sure I understand the point of moving the drop round to after 12 rounds. Most contests I’ve been to make it to 12 or more rounds. If we’re going to keep a drop round at all, just make it effective from round 2. Results will be the same.

I would not be opposed to dropping the drop completely.
Feb 20, 2019, 10:23 PM
hot air rises...
jfinch's Avatar
time to 0.1 sec....yes!
Midairs on launch get reflight and no drop til R12... yes (I'd even say no drop ever, if midairs are covered)
30 sec flight test/1 min dead time before heat... blah (ok for some contests)
Flyoff task proposal (t)... I don't understand what they're saying

New tasks
2 longest flights, 5 min max... yes
3 card 10 min poker... I hate poker
1 launch, 5:59 min max... rather have next one
1 launch, 9:59 max... yes (this would be a fun low stress all in poker call).

Flyoff only tasks
Huge Ladder, 3/5/7 min... ok
2 flights only, 5 min max... ok (but almost the same as above)
15 min of 3 handed poker... shoot me now
5 min AULD... yes

The women stuff is a thumbs up.
Feb 20, 2019, 11:01 PM
Come out swinging
sporter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by olgol
Very interesting proposals!
Almost all directed at making F3K more challenging!
+1

One launch, 9:59 max. I love it!

Sean
Feb 21, 2019, 08:37 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by roydor
I dont like 15 minute tasks. In Ukraine we flew an all up round of 5 flights, it was long and ate up too much time. I rather have more rounds than fewer rounds with longer flights.
I also don’t like making excruciatingly long and mostly boring flights, I prefer tasks with multiple flights rather than a 10 minute or two 5 minute flights. I believe that if you have air for a 4 minute flight, most of the time there will be air for even longer flights and I prefer a task like 2 last flights over a single throw to a 10 minute flight...just sounds like poker in good conditions and if the conditions are good, most WC level pilot will call a 10 min flight for poker anyways so why another “poker” task...
Less drops - YES!
Midairs during launch? Hell yes!, but also for being SAMed.
I agree, I hate 15min tasks, especially at the WC. Most boring time I ever experienced at a WC, that round (5 x AULD) would just never end! The down time was way too long, so I would not want more long tasks. To be fair, AULD does add even more down time than a 'normal' task due to downtime in between flights in a round. And I am not a fan of the repeated 10min or 15min flights in F3J, so wouldn't be keen to see that creeping into F3K.

Don't agree with new window if you get midaired during someone's launch. It creates a way to salvage a bad round by putting your glider in a position where it might sam'ed so that you get to have a another go. Sounds extreme, but if it was the round before the fly offs and one is in jeopardy of not making the fly offs, I think many would risk a model in order to have another go. I think it as much the responsibility of the pilot in the air as the person launching to avoid a midair. Yes, that can get tricky if you are scraping in light lift that carries you over the box, but you cannot create a rule for every scenario.

ps: just offering my opinion - I have not voted.
Feb 21, 2019, 09:11 AM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
Mike,
I can see your point about intentionally flying over the field looking for a refly butbthat also applies to launching, you can wait until someone fly’s overhead and then SAM him...
Might require a rule where both models need to be in the launch phase.
Feb 21, 2019, 09:50 AM
Registered User
eitanro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfinch
time to 0.1 sec....yes!
Midairs on launch get reflight and no drop til R12... yes (I'd even say no drop ever, if midairs are covered)
30 sec flight test/1 min dead time before heat... blah (ok for some contests)
Flyoff task proposal (t)... I don't understand what they're saying

New tasks
2 longest flights, 5 min max... yes
3 card 10 min poker... I hate poker
1 launch, 5:59 min max... rather have next one
1 launch, 9:59 max... yes (this would be a fun low stress all in poker call).

Flyoff only tasks
Huge Ladder, 3/5/7 min... ok
2 flights only, 5 min max... ok (but almost the same as above)
15 min of 3 handed poker... shoot me now
5 min AULD... yes

The women stuff is a thumbs up.
0.1 sec - hell yea!
Midairs on launch get reflight and no drop til R12 - maybe, Sh$%t happens...
30 sec flight test/1 min dead time before heat - Testing the air prior to launch is part of the deal, so definitely no.
Flyoff task proposal (t)... I don't understand what they're saying - same

New tasks
2 longest flights, 5 min max - hmm - boring task, no action at all.
3 card 10 min poker - Sounds like F3J/F5J, booooring!
1 launch, 5:59 min max - less boring
1 launch, 9:59 max - What is it good for? super boring


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