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Sep 17, 2019, 07:40 AM
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I thought KabobFPV (Toothpick GOD) said the sweet spot was 7500-8000kv 2s setup I could be wrong too lazy to go back and read his web page. Personally I think the TP "Class" is pretty over hyped. I've got several 2 and 2.5" that fly great and doesn't have something break every time I land on grass. Friggen AIO FC's ARRRRRRRRR! Now that's not to say there pretty awesome. My favorite right now is a 3" "TP" and I do like to fly my ultra light around the front yard but still think they are way over hyped like the vendor's are now starting to struggle to sell micro's. I get the feeling this stuff is starting to slow down. It's still very niche in my area. Not many folks fly micro's around my part of town at least not that's I've found.
Last edited by Fidy$Trainer; Sep 17, 2019 at 07:59 AM.
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Sep 17, 2019, 07:55 AM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
xanuser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelsheffield
We don't lol,
Unless we do some tests ourselves on the motors like applying a set voltage to an unloaded motor ( no prop ) and measuring the revolutions ..
or spin the motor at a set RPM with something like a drill, and measure the voltage.


what nigel says about his bamboo builds and what bob originally put together is not hype, but 90% of the "TP's" are. basically everyone says yeah sounds great! then uses larger motors and a heavier frame and bigger packs, and ends up being very meh.
Sep 17, 2019, 08:12 AM
nigelsheffield's Avatar
Yeah what's funny is that it's taken the manufacturers so long to figure out that me and Bob had already figured out the best kv props combos along with a proper light thin frame,
It went like this.

They asked me how the hell did I get such long flights and decent performance from 2s and 1103 motors,
I told them 6500kv and 3 inch props, or maybe 8000kv or and 2.5inch props for a more fizzy responsive feel.
Oh ok they. Said, then they release a build with 17500kv 0802 motors?!?!
Short run times so they ask me again, I tell them the same thing and they reply ok...
Next up they come out with 11000kv motors ....
And so on until eventually they listen to Bob and give us 7500kv on the larva X and suprise suprise it does fairly well despite still being heavier and than my bamboo skewers builds.

And I thought the Chinese were supposed to be good at copying.


I just flew my bamboo skewers again to compare with my latest quads ( larva X and fullspeed toothpick pro ) and I must say they it was a bit wobblier and not as powerful as I remembered in the wind , I think this might be down to the large props not having enough torque from the motors to control them as well but it could also be my tune,
It still got 6 minutes to 3.8v per cell from worn out old 300mah 2s lipos though.

Edit oh and it has a slightly wonky motor because of a crash and repair on on of the arms ( right at the motor mount weak spot ) which will be affecting it.

Might be time for another build soon with fresh bamboo skewers lmfao.
Latest blog entry: Eachine twig 115
Sep 17, 2019, 10:17 AM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
xanuser's Avatar
its the way most "guys" are in this hobby.

they hear maybe half of what is said, then decide it would be even better with MOR POWAH! its like they need a bigger number on their motor, pack or frame to compensate for something...
Sep 17, 2019, 11:08 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanuser
its the way most "guys" are in this hobby.

they hear maybe half of what is said, then decide it would be even better with MOR POWAH! its like they need a bigger number on their motor, pack or frame to compensate for something...
I'll use a car analogy. You have the import scene , foreign car with small 4 cyl turbo . The other side of the coin is the muscle car guy big obnoxious v8 brutal power. I'm picturing a Honda with some mods. Then you have the muscle car Mustang GT / Camaro SS big and heavy. Yeah it's not as fuel efficient but for some it's more fun to drive. Think of an AC Cobra one of the best performance cars of all time. It was small light weight and HUGE motor for MOR POWAH!!! I dont think it would have been as much fun to drive if you put a 4cy turbo in it.

I have a light weight Toothpick with 1103's and it's just not nearly as much fun to fly as my 3" Sanchez with 1304's and as soon as they come out with 20A AIO board I'll be the first to throw on a 4s.

There is no such thing as perfection every build has pro's and cons. Some builds work better than others. The toothpick is nothing more than a light 2.5" quad. I have both and I prefer the POWAH! To each his own.
Sep 17, 2019, 11:43 AM
Enjoying every minute of it...
the FORCE is strong with this one...

DARTH VADER "The Force is Strong with this One!" (1 min 1 sec)


Sep 17, 2019, 12:54 PM
Just an earth-bound misfit
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelsheffield
Yep, that's why my bamboo skewers build does so well too, it's only 30g plus battery and being some efficient only needs a small battery for long flight times.
Also a light build will have less energy in a crash and so less damage is likely.
Bamboo skewers are surprisingly strong in that build, the only weak spot is where I have drilled and filed motor mounts into the wood for brushless.
Experimenting with different setups is fun and sometimes suprising.
But a very obvious thing is high KV is generally never very good for efficiency,
11000kv 1103 motors simply are not efficient, they are really best kept for 1s builds imho, and even then I get MUCH better efficiency from 6500kv 1103 on 3inch props than any prop on 11000kv motors on 1s or 2s ..
From the first time I saw your vid with your bamboo brushless, I was really impressed. A while back on the B03/Silverware thread, talking with you, and with your help answering a lot of my questions was very influential in getting me started putting my own quads together. It got me looking at something new coming out, and instead of looking at it to maybe buy, I now look at them if I like the idea that much, how can I make one of my own . . . better . . . it is addicting, and you must have given me good advice . . .

And maybe just forgot about my Skystars 1103/11000kvs and how efficient they are on 2" Avan Blurs . . . I've been getting almost Toothpicky flight times with them on my 85 Whoop . . . which is not exactly a flying brick . . . and I remember you mentioning noticing even a couple gram difference in how your Whoops fly even with just a bigger battery, so I tried to keep it light. Using the Crazybee v3, like on the Larva too. On a 32 gram 520mAh 2S, running it hard/fast to me pretty much the whole flight, I've been getting solid 6 - 6+ minute flights, and over 7 on a 650 Tattu. They are smaller props, and are probably very easy for the 1103s to spin up with out any strain at all, and the best performing and efficient props I've tried on it.

It still doesn't fly as long or as fast as my Primo with the HM 1102/9kvs on the same batteries though. I get an easy 8 minutes, flying it even harder with that ultra light Pick with the 65mm bi-blades.

I probably shouldn't, nice weather is going to be winding down, but I keep looking back at the new 3" Primo. For that, I was thinking about using the Skystars 1103s again . . . but . . . the lower 8000kv version to better handle the larger props without pushing the motors too hard. I also thought about big block BH 1402/9500 kvs, and heard those get awesome flight times on light weights too . . .

I've also seen some AOKFLY 1103/15000kvs and some MP03X & MP03T 1103/16000kvs @ about 3 grams which might make an interesting 1S toothpick too . . .
Sep 17, 2019, 02:16 PM
nigelsheffield's Avatar
Sounds like you have a LOT planned Brian !!

But yes winter is defo on its way and flying outside will begin to be a bit limited , at the moment I'm enjoying some nice sunny calm (ish ) weather in the UK so getting some good flying in,

Not at all related but I got out on a bike these last few days and today tried out a folding ebike which made me feel like a kid again it was so easy to ride up the hills, related a little bit maybe because I will be taking rides out and bringing my quads with me to fly at some different places.
Should be fun.
Latest blog entry: Eachine twig 115
Sep 17, 2019, 02:20 PM
DumbThumbsFPV
Deserteagle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelsheffield

11kkv on 2.5 props on 2s would be nice and fast and agile especially if kept light weight and props nicely balanced to allow them to spin up fully, maybe not as efficient as a lower kv but again weight is the key, if it's light enough that you don't need to hit the throttle too much it could still be reaaonably efficient and have extra punch when you want it.
Exactly, I like 11kkv motors on 45g dry and below quads. I like how they feel in the air.. If I wanted 7 minutes of boring flight time then I'd get a sailplane.
Sep 17, 2019, 03:29 PM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
xanuser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidy$Trainer
I'll use a car analogy. You have the import scene , foreign car with small 4 cyl turbo . The other side of the coin is the muscle car guy big obnoxious v8 brutal power. I'm picturing a Honda with some mods. Then you have the muscle car Mustang GT / Camaro SS big and heavy. Yeah it's not as fuel efficient but for some it's more fun to drive. Think of an AC Cobra one of the best performance cars of all time. It was small light weight and HUGE motor for MOR POWAH!!! I dont think it would have been as much fun to drive if you put a 4cy turbo in it.

I have a light weight Toothpick with 1103's and it's just not nearly as much fun to fly as my 3" Sanchez with 1304's and as soon as they come out with 20A AIO board I'll be the first to throw on a 4s.

There is no such thing as perfection every build has pro's and cons. Some builds work better than others. The toothpick is nothing more than a light 2.5" quad. I have both and I prefer the POWAH! To each his own.
Never understood the need for straight line speed. It's all about cornering. Nuremberg, not dragstrip!

I certainly have no clue why guys are building quads to see how fast the can go for 10 seconds in front of a radar gun. Just whip it out and compare already.

But hey there's also guys that are working on a dozen different builds, planned out to the enth degree, but hardly ever go fly.

Some people are drawn to this hobby for the oddest reasons.
Sep 17, 2019, 04:51 PM
DumbThumbsFPV
Deserteagle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanuser
Never understood the need for straight line speed. It's all about cornering. Nuremberg, not dragstrip!

I certainly have no clue why guys are building quads to see how fast the can go for 10 seconds in front of a radar gun. Just whip it out and compare already.

But hey there's also guys that are working on a dozen different builds, planned out to the enth degree, but hardly ever go fly.

Some people are drawn to this hobby for the oddest reasons.
without wind I get 4 to 5 minutes out of mine with wore out 350 batteries. good enough. I would rather race an F1 car with some pit stops instead of 24 hours of Le Mans...
Last edited by Deserteagle; Sep 17, 2019 at 04:56 PM.
Sep 17, 2019, 05:09 PM
We are not men, we are DEVO 7e
xanuser's Avatar
zactly. rather drive a BMW M3 on a mountain road for 3 mins than a vette on the salt flats for 30+.

I forget who it was that did this amazing 6 s micro build.... then all they did with it was fly around a rugby pitch, pegging straight runs back and forth between the goalposts/ never could figure that one out. o_0
Last edited by xanuser; Sep 17, 2019 at 05:16 PM.
Sep 17, 2019, 08:39 PM
nigelsheffield's Avatar
Yes there is definitely a trend for as much power as possible and straight line speed runs to show off that power,
I prefere a nice balanced quad with good handling and good speed and power that goes around corners properly and can still peg it on the straights ...

My r349 is crazy powerful on 4s but feels awkward in the corners compared to my lighter quads , it's enjoyable to fly though when I am in the mood for the pure adrenaline rush of that speed and power but most of the time I prefere the nice handling and nippy lighter less powerful quads which will get me around a more technical track faster.

Everyone wants something a little different I guess and it's fun to try out different setups ,
One of the sillier comments I seem to keep hearing ( and I may have even said it myself in the past lol ) is "if I could only have one quad this would be it ", why would you only have ONE quad?!?!?!?
Latest blog entry: Eachine twig 115
Sep 17, 2019, 09:21 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanuser
zactly. rather drive a BMW M3 on a mountain road for 3 mins than a vette on the salt flats for 30+.

I forget who it was that did this amazing 6 s micro build.... then all they did with it was fly around a rugby pitch, pegging straight runs back and forth between the goalposts/ never could figure that one out. o_0
You nearly describe me there, having a 3 inch 6S micro build that I used to regularly fly around the local rugby field/s. Although I do more than straight line runs, I have been know to do a few of those. The rugby posts although huge compared to gates are certainly convenient to use when they are up at the local field.

I have to admit though that I would get bored pretty quick if I was only doing high speed runs back and forth between posts at opposite ends of a field. But it does have its fun side for short durations and seems to catch the interest of people as I've had a number of comments on how fast/small the build was when doing it.

Anyway I've grounded the quad as having video issues and we are heading into spring here so the rugby posts have been removed ready for the cricket players to take over.

One thing I can say for the the rugby posts is that they do make a really good sound when you wack into the upright posts at a reasonable speed, although I expect my aluminium frame helps there somewhat.
Sep 17, 2019, 10:39 PM
Just an earth-bound misfit
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelsheffield
Sounds like you have a LOT planned Brian !!

But yes winter is defo on its way and flying outside will begin to be a bit limited , at the moment I'm enjoying some nice sunny calm (ish ) weather in the UK so getting some good flying in,

Not at all related but I got out on a bike these last few days and today tried out a folding ebike which made me feel like a kid again it was so easy to ride up the hills, related a little bit maybe because I will be taking rides out and bringing my quads with me to fly at some different places.
Should be fun.
Not really, I keep going back, looking at that 3" Primo, but I still have another 080x frame I want to put a set of HM 802/16kv motors in. They're even better than my Mobula on the 65 & 85, and want to see how they do on a Pick. They fly great and get awesome flight times on all the Whoops, so expectations are even better than the Primo with the 1102s.

The first thing I thought of when I found the Kababpick was your bamboo brushless, and was thinking he came up with a c/f version so more people can get your awesome flight times, power and agility in a small ultra light weight that can be flown just about anywhere . . . without having any woodworking skills . . .

I think I just got lucky with the combination on the 85/1103 with the light weight and those props. The Blurs are great, a ton of punch, and plenty of top end. It seems to like going fast, and the motors are barely warm at the end of the flight.

I thought I saw a commercial the other day for a Harley e-bike, but don't think that one is foldable . . . Hope your weather stays good enough for you to get some riding in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserteagle
Exactly, I like 11kkv motors on 45g dry and below quads. I like how they feel in the air.. If I wanted 7 minutes of boring flight time then I'd get a sailplane.
If you're going to do it, do it right . . . get a Hubsan 501S and you'll get a rock solid 20 minutes of boring flight even with stock batteries !! It does take really great video though, but it's more fun going to the dentist . . . and I don't mean the Kababpick dentist . . .

I haven't weighed the 85/1103, but it doesn't feel much heavier than my 85/802. I did switch out the vTx dipole for a Foxeer Lollipop this weekend, and didn't notice any difference in handling or flight times, but never weighed it, even before that. Can't weigh too much with the way it flies and the flight times though. I just know I like it a lot, and it's a lot of fun for me to fly it, and that's all that really matters to me.

I have a friend, awesome car guy, really knowledgeable, that got a ?? Tello ?? that runs off a smart phone app. He takes it to car shows, floats around taking pics and videos, and thinks it's great, and totally content with it. Not for me, or what I like, but he enjoys his airtime every bit as much, and it's neat to see his vids from the shows.

There's so many different kinds of quads for just about any way you want to fly, or what you want to do or accomplish. As long as you like it, and you're enjoying yourself, good for you !!

But . . . I still think "CineWhoop" is an oxy-moron . . .
Last edited by Brian_OH; Sep 17, 2019 at 11:07 PM.


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