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Sep 17, 2019, 10:02 PM
For the mention of pitch up during or near transition....
This should not happen.
The 'transition' from 45 mode to forward flight takes about 3 seconds.
Would not expect it to pitch in the first 2 seconds (primary transition period, after than it is increasingly 'more' in FwdFlt).
If pitching up after 2.5 seconds and following (indefinitely) in forward flight, this is simply forward flight trimming needed (turn elevon clevis in) as expected and described in the manual and the WIKI, (not 'transition').

As the WIKI mentions, the gauge setting of elevons is expected to pitch up a mild to moderate amount in forward flight. This is intentional and MUCH safer than the Cypher pitching DOWN on the first transitions. Normally I would expect the clevises may need to turn in 1 to 3 turns on each elevon. Of course CG and taste enters into this as well.

Of course this all assumes the forward flight fan angle is set properly per the gauges which we emphasize a lot! This is key for proper behavior in the actual transition (+1 to +3 seconds, thrust angle is key when airspeed is still quite slow!)

SZE... FWIW, have played with the FwdFlt Fan Angle a lot over the last year. I am confident that the angle set by the Gauge is 'correct' and am quite sure a change of more than about a degree or so either way will be worse... so if experimenting, I would recommend very small changes (maybe 1% Tx Travel at a time!) CG in manual is best recommendation as commented with more detail previously.

We are getting a lot of good reports on Cyphers flying!

David
Last edited by dribbe; Sep 17, 2019 at 10:16 PM.
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Sep 17, 2019, 11:44 PM
Registered User
So when are you going to send a few Down Under???
Sep 18, 2019, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomC
So when are you going to send a few Down Under???
Have posted on this previously. I understand their order is built, but we don't have any visibility to OMP's shipping arrangements. You need to contact OMP.
David
Sep 18, 2019, 12:34 PM
Never too old to learn
David, will these be for sale at Nall in the Fall?

Tom
Sep 18, 2019, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iflircaircraft
David, will these be for sale at Nall in the Fall?

Tom
Hi Tom,

Absolutely yes! Quique, Seth, and Josh will be selling/demoing.
I will be at a show in Texas at that time (IceHouse)

David
Sep 18, 2019, 08:01 PM
Registered User

Problem Solved


Quote:
Originally Posted by dribbe
For the mention of pitch up during or near transition....
This should not happen.
The 'transition' from 45 mode to forward flight takes about 3 seconds.
Would not expect it to pitch in the first 2 seconds (primary transition period, after than it is increasingly 'more' in FwdFlt).
If pitching up after 2.5 seconds and following (indefinitely) in forward flight, this is simply forward flight trimming needed (turn elevon clevis in) as expected and described in the manual and the WIKI, (not 'transition').

As the WIKI mentions, the gauge setting of elevons is expected to pitch up a mild to moderate amount in forward flight. This is intentional and MUCH safer than the Cypher pitching DOWN on the first transitions. Normally I would expect the clevises may need to turn in 1 to 3 turns on each elevon. Of course CG and taste enters into this as well.

Of course this all assumes the forward flight fan angle is set properly per the gauges which we emphasize a lot! This is key for proper behavior in the actual transition (+1 to +3 seconds, thrust angle is key when airspeed is still quite slow!)

SZE... FWIW, have played with the FwdFlt Fan Angle a lot over the last year. I am confident that the angle set by the Gauge is 'correct' and am quite sure a change of more than about a degree or so either way will be worse... so if experimenting, I would recommend very small changes (maybe 1% Tx Travel at a time!) CG in manual is best recommendation as commented with more detail previously.

We are getting a lot of good reports on Cyphers flying!

David
My fellow club member in fact was reading the CG location wrong and moved the battery to get the CG at 13/16". He was simply way too tail heavy which is why it shot up after transition. He flew today and the transition to forward flight was much smoother, yet with only very slight upward pitch. Adjusting nacelle pitch 1 deg. at a time, a few degrees tuned in the forward flight very well.

He also tried the glide and it did slow down but stayed surprisingly level. It didn't fall off. This was not in stability mode by the way. So he is quite happy with the flying of this plane. He is an expert helicopter pilot but commented that it would be best to switch to stability mode when landing to avoid any sudden unexpected drop-offs. This happened once, with minor fixable fin damage.

His radio is Spektum, mine is a Taranis. I will goal for using voltage telemetry after I get it flying. To me with the large variability of flying time based on what mode you stay in would almost demand a good glider to failsafe land in forward flight to save the battery. Regardless, low voltage warning would be a good thing.

Watching all this and the wind conditions we had made me think how "bug free" this aircraft actually is compared the Convergence and the V22. I really like the idea that the FC is updatable and adjustable (once you know what you are doing). The other products are not. They prefer to keep you in the dark. Imagine an aircraft that doesn't fall out of the sky for no reason, and one you can't easily control! Thanks for your thoughtful comments and response.

Wally
Sep 19, 2019, 06:37 AM
Registered User
I want one of these! My next airplane for sure
Sep 19, 2019, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by szempruw
My fellow club member in fact was reading the CG location wrong and moved the battery to get the CG at 13/16". He was simply way too tail heavy which is why it shot up after transition. He flew today and the transition to forward flight was much smoother, yet with only very slight upward pitch. Adjusting nacelle pitch 1 deg. at a time, a few degrees tuned in the forward flight very well.

He also tried the glide and it did slow down but stayed surprisingly level. It didn't fall off. This was not in stability mode by the way. So he is quite happy with the flying of this plane. He is an expert helicopter pilot but commented that it would be best to switch to stability mode when landing to avoid any sudden unexpected drop-offs. This happened once, with minor fixable fin damage.

His radio is Spektum, mine is a Taranis. I will goal for using voltage telemetry after I get it flying. To me with the large variability of flying time based on what mode you stay in would almost demand a good glider to failsafe land in forward flight to save the battery. Regardless, low voltage warning would be a good thing.

Watching all this and the wind conditions we had made me think how "bug free" this aircraft actually is compared the Convergence and the V22. I really like the idea that the FC is updatable and adjustable (once you know what you are doing). The other products are not. They prefer to keep you in the dark. Imagine an aircraft that doesn't fall out of the sky for no reason, and one you can't easily control! Thanks for your thoughtful comments and response.

Wally
Hi Wally,
Thanks for helping him and for the update. I think he talked to someone on our staff because I got the same scenario (mis-reading the manual on CG) in a talk with them.
I think over time, most will find that transitions can be done just fine in stability or acro.
Certainly a bit higher throttle during transitions is your friend in Rough Air. (The motors have more bite, and the gains tail off near idle).
Hope he enjoys!

Have not had much experience here yet with the Taranis... and no telemetry. Would like to work with someone if any tweaks on our Wiki are needed, and for telemetry.

Davd
Sep 19, 2019, 02:26 PM
MaineFlyer
jpgilbert's Avatar

My first flights


Finally got mine in the air today. Have to say I was real nervous! It went very well until I ignored a telemetry warning about low battery voltage! It rolled over and hit the grass but no real damage. One fin broke loose and I just pushed it back in place and flew!!
My first takeoff, not in the video, was as an airplane just like the the first one in the video. Went well although I prefer using the experienced mode, not the beginner.
I have to say it does go through batteries. I used some new 3700s and I didn't really track flight time but it isn't a lot. I am going to look into maybe some higher C rating lipos and also check into seeing what the flight controller is using for settings.

Looking forward to more flights and fun!!!
Joe
Video URL
Joe's Flex Innovations FV-31 Cypher - First Flights (5 min 51 sec)
Sep 19, 2019, 02:36 PM
Registered User
Canopy looks like it could use a couple more magnets. How big of a battery do you think this thing will take and still have the canopy close and be light enough to hover?
Sep 19, 2019, 03:18 PM
MaineFlyer
jpgilbert's Avatar
I'll be looking into lipos to see what will fit!
Sep 19, 2019, 03:34 PM
Registered User
Ran D. St. Clair's Avatar

Words of Respect


Words of respect…

I don’t own an FV-31 (yet) but I have designed and built many VTOLs, published instructions for others to build them, and helped many others get their own creations flying. The FV-31 is the first commercially available VTOL I have any interest in, other than swapping out the FC with OAV and publishing the method so that others can do the same.

Many of my designs have been built by people who didn’t really understand the physics or aerodynamics, or just thought they did. They often made changes to “improve” the designs, or more often didn’t build them correctly. Some eventually corrected course, and many never did. I tried to help them all, but some would not listen, and others wanted to listen, but it was too difficult to debug their problems over the internet when I could not see, and they could not describe the issues in enough detail.

I feel like all commercial VTOLs suffer from this to some degree. Even the best of them can be destroyed by misunderstandings and bad judgment. Others never live up to their true potential for lack of some basic tuning. It doesn’t help that many of them (not the FV-31) have basic design flaws that contribute to their demise. Given the economics of the situation it is impossible to provide the level of hand-holding that some people need. It is very easy for a particular design to gain a bad reputation, whether deserved or not.

I can see that the FV-31 has avoided the worst of the design problems. You have provided a level of communication and customer service that I have not previously seen. Your design is uniquely capable, sporty, fast, slow, and fun. The pilot control interface is both more flexible and more capable than most cookie cutter offerings. The setup instructions and jigs are especially necessary and good. In a very short time it will be clear if your offering is as well accepted as I expect it will be.

Congratulations on taking commercially available VTOL to a new level.

Ran D. St. Clair
Sep 19, 2019, 05:04 PM
Do you see what I see?
rcoconut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgilbert
Finally got mine in the air today. Have to say I was real nervous! It went very well until I ignored a telemetry warning about low battery voltage! It rolled over and hit the grass but no real damage. One fin broke loose and I just pushed it back in place and flew!!
My first takeoff, not in the video, was as an airplane just like the the first one in the video. Went well although I prefer using the experienced mode, not the beginner.
I have to say it does go through batteries. I used some new 3700s and I didn't really track flight time but it isn't a lot. I am going to look into maybe some higher C rating lipos and also check into seeing what the flight controller is using for settings.

Looking forward to more flights and fun!!!
Joe
Video URL
https://youtu.be/v1vVKdRlKMc
Congrats with your maiden & thanks for sharing your vid!!!

Curious as to what your C rating on your new 3700mAh batts you used? Thanks in advance.

Coconut
Sep 19, 2019, 06:00 PM
Registered User
I just finished assembling and bench testing my Cypher. I set channels 1-5 to 1000/1500.2000 as directed using my Taranis radio and Betaflight.

I started with channel 6 as recommended on 3-pos switch and used the gauges to fine tune the 3 flight modes

I calibrated the accelerometer with a 1/8" shim under the nosewheel and ensured that roll was level.

While doing the physical tests, I only had to reverse the aileron on the transmitter. The physical test on roll performed as expected. All test modes were ok but I noticed poor elevon movement in stability mode.

My only question and perhaps problem is that I did not see a big i.e. greater than 1/8" or more deflection of the elevons in stability mode while pitching. It seemed to respond a little as if Spektrum's AS3X heading hold was engaged but not auto-leveling. It only moved the elevons very slightly, in the correct direction, but it was about the same in both the advanced profile and the stability profile. I was just expecting more elevon travel when switching between the two, understandably not in vertical or magic mode with all 4 motors running and controlling pitch, but I would expect in forward flight mode. Is very little elevon correction in forward flight mode to be expected?
Last edited by szempruw; Sep 19, 2019 at 06:06 PM.
Sep 19, 2019, 06:09 PM
Registered User
Petefoss's Avatar
I too misread the CG location and was super tail heavy. I was trying to get to 21 mm AFT of the aft edge of the pan rather than forward. With the CG back that far it flew fine in all three mode with beginner on. With advanced it pitched up huge in forward flight.

I dropped the elevons down to almost no reflex AND read the CG location properly. MUCH better in advanced mode. Back flips in 45 magic mode were insanely tight.

I'm using some older 3S4000 25C packs that weigh 323 grams or 11.4 oz. The fit fine but I did blow the canopy off doing sideways flips in advanced mode. Time to add more up front. And I wish I understood why designers put magnets in front and a tab in back where the opposite is much more secure!

Pete


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