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Feb 16, 2019, 11:37 AM
Folding Spacetime
navigator2011's Avatar
It's easy--just offer updated brushless motors for this heli. For some reason, even when the CPS was a new release, most of the optional parts remained discontinued on their site, and they never even bothered to upgrade the CPX brushless upgrade. I think this was a mistake!

For some reason, it keeps getting forgotten that it's not only beginners that like micro-helis. Many intermediate pilots need a good high-performance micro-heli, too! This need will only increase as more and more regulations are put onto the hobby.
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Feb 16, 2019, 12:38 PM
Registered User
CatBird's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by navigator2011
For some reason, it keeps getting forgotten that it's not only beginners that like micro-helis. Many intermediate pilots need a good high-performance micro-heli, too! This need will only increase as more and more regulations are put onto the hobby.
Agreed! I felt like I was a decent pilot outside with my larger helis, flying aerobatics and such. But I couldnt do anything in my small living room without hitting walls. Once I gained the precision to fly precise aerobatics inside, my outside flying went up a big notch. Especially useful for people who cant fly outside year-round.
Feb 16, 2019, 06:24 PM
Registered User
In my opinion the only heli anyone should be flying in their house is made of 0s and 1s...a SIMULATOR. I don't care how small or feather light the nano is that thing will damage stuff and it will break in a crash indoors...its a stupid concept.

Flying in a small space indoors is not really a good place to learn or practice...the Horizon people are just trying to market something that will line their pockets with parts sales...

Using the heli out doors in a light breeze and over grass is where these micros shine. Their are nearly unbreakable if you hit hold before impact but the brushless variants have all the power you need to get silly. When you get really sharp over grass you will have a blast in a gym.
Feb 16, 2019, 10:26 PM
Registered User
CatBird's Avatar
I’ve put in hundreds of indoor flights and broken maybe $20 of parts. I’ve lost control and seen it go through railing rungs (with hold on) and no damage. Sometimes I have to push the main gear back up. But as we say so often on here, to each his own...
Feb 16, 2019, 10:34 PM
Registered User
If your goal is to simply fly indoors then sure have at it with an nano. If your goal is to learn so you can throw down with a big machine out side...use the Sim indoors

Just my opinion.
Feb 16, 2019, 10:34 PM
Folding Spacetime
navigator2011's Avatar
While testing a new to me CPS, I actually flew right into myself, and had it chicken dance on top of my bare feet. Lol. It hurt, but zero damage to me or my clothes. Another time I bumped the rotor disc onto a wall, and I just kept flying. Not even a mark on the wall. So, with the brushed motor the nano is pretty harmless.
Feb 17, 2019, 05:07 AM
Wake up, feel pulse, be happy!
Piece's Avatar
Let me hash out the brushless thing.

First off, the factory brushless "upgrade" kit was terrible. The motor is excellent, but the ESC and wiring loom chop off the performance at the knee. It sucks. If anyone is basing their "brushed is better" comments off an experience with a heli vandalized by that mod, rest assured that it's far from a reasonable comparison in terms of performance, but (as I'll explain) has plenty of merit anyway.

I kept the HH motor for its light weight and mounting simplicity and added a micro outrunner to the tail. Both are driven by XP3A ESCs running BLHeli firmware with minimized power leads (direct from the board), and these ESCs are critical to the success of a brushless mod. I'm using the same 1S 175mAh cells I would use for the brushed setup, and I've switched to some slightly beefier noodle wire for the main plug. The total weight gain of the power system is like two grams minus the bigger lipos, which I'd call optional.

I've got some weight tied up in other mods (mostly the solid CF boom, fancy skids, and Protos canopy) so it's definitely heavier than stock, like 35g RTF.

But it flies great. There's a definite boost in power, but it's not huge or insane. Flight times were longer with the same cells when I ran a stock canopy, skids, and boom, and that's with the aluminum swash and DFC grips installed, plus the extra ESC weight. With all the extra stuff, duration is about the same but power is still better. The HH brushless ESC has a super abrupt LVC that's set too high for real life - with proper ESCs you get to use your true available capacity, and the cutoff is a soft power reduction rather than a hard cut. And, of course, my motors never wear out.

The giant black-and-white underline to the failure of the HH BL setup, even beyond the trash ESC, was that stupid wiring harness for those who wanted "plug and play" brushless. Its resistance robs a lot of power all by itself AND it adds significant weight to the model.

So the capability to make a functional indoor BL Nano exists. A proper BL ESC packaged on the main board would add negligible weight, provided it can physically fit (you'd need six MOSFETs, plus brains, instead of the one it takes to drive a brushed motor). Owing to the further reduction in weight and resistance, performance would be even higher, and flight time may increase even more.

The problem, I suspect, is twofold: 1) Compared to a simple coreless brushed motor, those tiny inrunners aren't cheap. You'd be looking at a very real purchase price increase over the brushed setup just from the BL motor alone. 2) The tail motor would also need to be brushless, full stop. I tried brushed tail, BL main, and it sucked. The extra power at the main blades drives the tail motor to death. I don't even fly 3D and I had tail issues from minute zero when I added a proper main ESC. That's how big the difference is, and why I went dual BL. So the list of requirements includes another total board redesign, packing two brushless ESCs into the already-crowded form factor with three servo outputs, RF stuff, and gyro/accelerometers, plus the smarter processor needed for SAFE and whatnot, and then two fairly specialized brushless motors that have no real cross-utility outside this specific model.

So even if a Nano-sized BL board can be made, and made to be reliable (because everyone should remember the original board failures), you're still looking at a significant price jump for the initial purchase. You can get plenty of people to bite at a $100 BNF Nano, especially if it's self-stabilizing, but I suspect a dual BL model would be priced at $150 BNF or higher. It probably wouldn't sell anywhere near as well no matter what kind of motor longevity you get, or how much extra performance it adds. It would be fantastic, but I don't think it's realistic.

And that's my somewhat experience-based dissertation on why a brushless Nano can be cake and more cake, but will probably never be sold in a stock format.
Latest blog entry: Jeti ESC resto-mod
Feb 17, 2019, 09:33 AM
Registered User
Hello P

Agree! The nano is not a good BL platform because once all is said and done the gains are marginal though the reliability if the motors and efficiency goes up. Paying 50+ more for for that will not go over well.

This is why a brushless MCPS should be released. I wonder if all the updates could simply be flashed on the existing BL board.

I'd pay 20ish bucks service cost to send this back to HH to be flashed for just the 3d flight control updates (pirocomp)... I think a mail in flash service could have kegs with little overhead to HH...
Feb 17, 2019, 05:04 PM
Registered User
JookSing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eco8gator
In my opinion the only heli anyone should be flying in their house is made of 0s and 1s...a SIMULATOR. I don't care how small or feather light the nano is that thing will damage stuff and it will break in a crash indoors...its a stupid concept..
I wouldn't go as far to say it's a stupid concept but I do agree that crashes in the house will do damage. My walls have a bunch of small gouges due to blade strikes from these micro helis.

Having said that, I do admire people who can 3D micros in their living rooms!
Feb 17, 2019, 05:21 PM
Heligamist
BrokeDad's Avatar
Thread OP
I just buy generic coreless motors for my Nano and change them. They are much cheaper if you don't want the convenience of the plug. Usually I get 200-400 flights before they need replaced if I break them in right. Same thing with my 120S.
Feb 19, 2019, 11:28 AM
AeroDan
Been eyeballing this one. It’ll make a nice pad-mate for my MCP S.
Feb 20, 2019, 06:22 AM
Registered User
I have owned nanos for as long as they have been out. I have had 42 gram Astroid Designs dbl bl powerhouse ncpxs with aluminum grips and swash. I like the HH brushless conversion. I like the ncpx I fly now with an up-powered MMW main motor.

It has cost me very little to fly. One grip and a boom have been wrecked in 8 months. No frame, blades, gears, skids, grips, FS, mainshaft or anything else. Having said that the canopy looks a little tatty but still holds with all four pins. I use plastic grips and swash as well as a hollow boom. Keep stuff light. I would much rather make another boom than to replace a frame.

Fly over grass. Use throttle hold. Don't fly two packs back-to-back--cool off time for brushed motors. Have no fear! I crashed my first nano probably 500 times without having to even refit one end of a dog bone.

I am starting a friend (RC noob) with a ncpx, DX7i and Phoenix. He will learn throttle hold instead of slamming the left stick down. Let's see how quickly he inverts. It took me forever. But when I bought a nano my life changed. No fear.
Feb 22, 2019, 05:25 PM
Registered User
just pre-ordered one.
Feb 22, 2019, 05:51 PM
Wake up, feel pulse, be happy!
Piece's Avatar
I really like the simple, clean blue and gray trim scheme on this one. It looks nice.

My CP S has been shelved for like two years with a random board failure that I forgot to email Horizon about. It'll bind and the servos will work, but it resets as soon as I touch the throttle. I always forget I have it because my CP X is so good , but at this point, an even smarter, more stable indoor model might be fun.

Can anyone give me a rundown on how the altitude hold function works from a technical standpoint, or else point me to a link that explains it? Sounds like a big improvement to an already-great platform.
Latest blog entry: Jeti ESC resto-mod
Feb 22, 2019, 05:55 PM
Heligamist
BrokeDad's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piece
Can anyone give me a rundown on how the altitude hold function works from a technical standpoint, or else point me to a link that explains it? Sounds like a big improvement to an already-great platform.
I believe it uses a barometric pressure sensor. Much cheaper than GPS.


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