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Oct 14, 2019, 06:08 AM
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modellermark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keppis
Hello modellermark and welcome aboard the thread, sir!

Ah, bad luck with the brick, is it still out of order or have you got around flying it?

Looks like you've put some thought to it. Love the embossed AD/HD title on the nose You have the servo holes quite in the nose, did you use something to calculate their places according the CG? This fuselage looks quite rigid.

Whoa, 57grams? Is it possible to shave up any weight? I bet it will fly, but it'll be fast and not that agile, just for outdoors use only. Also wing needs to be reinforced and fully taped which again adds in more weight.

Hope you don't plan to print the wing too, DiAleksi was about to try a full 3D printed 40 but the estimated weight was really high so he decided that it's not worth the shot.

I don't mean to shot you down with the idea, I'm actually keen to see how this would come up.
What servos and motor are you about to try by the way?

Just weighted the fuselage templates and got weights for EPP and packing foam fuselages the following readings:
1.0-1.5 grams for 30
1.0- 2.5 grams for 40
4.0-5.0 grams for 50 fuselage.
These are just for the foam cores so they do not include the weight of the possible cheek plates or firewall for brushless motor, adding a gram or two in total glue included.

Maybe I need to build a sleek debron fuselage with hollow interior, probably with a EPP core from the nose to the CG to preserve at least some of the elastic properties of the original concept.
I think the brick is dead - i was re-wiring the power line to add a link to the fpv cam but managed to reverse the wires (+ to -) - the motor came on full speed when i put the battery on and it got very hot in just the second before i pulled the battery - swapped them and get lights but it won't bind or anything.

The servo positions are just random as i couldn't tell where the weight would be until i printed it.

I could probably go for a 0.4mm skin and almost halve the weight - this is very early trial and error at the moment and I may have to almost start again to do that.
I didn't intend to print the wing or fin and I was wondering whether to do the wing from 6mm depron - that adds yet more weight but lets me to profile it a little and will add drag and lift which may make it more flyable without the need for tape.
I am going to use a 1g receiver: https://www.banggood.com/2_4G-8CH-D8...r_warehouse=CN
I have one of these available for power (weights 9g): https://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-B...r_warehouse=CN
Then a light weight esc and small 2S lipo.

Another option would be to make the width of it less - thereby reducing weight but i would lose the sizing i wanted for motor mounting etc.

I may just give it a try with the 6mm wing as i have everything in stock at the moment and see what happens.
I only get limited time for my modelling so it may be a while before i get to report back with further progress but will keep updates coming when i can.
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Oct 14, 2019, 06:42 AM
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Ouch, bad luck with the brick then. Planning to replace it later?

Ah yes, like I posted earlier I tend to pre-fit my components on the wing and fuselage to see if the CG goes close to right area. In this case it might not be that easy.

I agree on the 6 mm debron, you can sand it to an airfoil easily, it makes a huge difference having tapered trailing edges/elevons. But I still recommend taping the leading edge since it gets dents and scratches more easily, especially after being sanded to airfoil.

I'd say test with the intended gear and proto fuselage and see how it goes, easier to make improvements after that.

Maybe the nose can be printed thicker or with current thickness but the tail needs rethinking. Motor has 3 mounting holes so the underside of the fuselage can be tapered to a triangle cross section perhaps? A little less material compared to square fuselage.

About the motor choice, can you find anything lighter, it'd need a bigger battery to the nose with that one, especially if you use a prop adapter.
Good luck with testing, hope to hear from you soon
Oct 14, 2019, 06:55 AM
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modellermark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keppis
Ouch, bad luck with the brick then. Planning to replace it later?

Ah yes, like I posted earlier I tend to pre-fit my components on the wing and fuselage to see if the CG goes close to right area. In this case it might not be that easy.

I agree on the 6 mm debron, you can sand it to an airfoil easily, it makes a huge difference having tapered trailing edges/elevons. But I still recommend taping the leading edge since it gets dents and scratches more easily, especially after being sanded to airfoil.

I'd say test with the intended gear and proto fuselage and see how it goes, easier to make improvements after that.

Maybe the nose can be printed thicker or with current thickness but the tail needs rethinking. Motor has 3 mounting holes so the underside of the fuselage can be tapered to a triangle cross section perhaps? A little less material compared to square fuselage.

About the motor choice, can you find anything lighter, it'd need a bigger battery to the nose with that one, especially if you use a prop adapter.
Good luck with testing, hope to hear from you soon
I will have a think about the rear end - i did crop it a little to fit the mounts on that motor based on being able to fit it before gluing the last part on.

As the inside is hollow the esc / receiver and battery location could be adjusted through the large access hole to help with the CofG but i shall see what happens when i put it together.

The motor was just what i had in stock - i will see if i have anything else that could do the job.

#EDIT - I could do something like the attached on the rear - makes changing / fitting the motor easier?
Last edited by modellermark; Oct 14, 2019 at 07:13 AM.
Oct 21, 2019, 08:04 AM
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modellermark's Avatar

3D Print update


Latest update ... i have added holes - lots of holes - printed at 0.4mm skin with a 20% infill ... thinest thing i have ever printed!

I also changed the rear section to give a nice solid and smooth 1mm motor mount.

It is all surprisingly strong and stiff but is now down to 32g so hopefully heading in the righ direction.

The 6mm wing and 3mm fin are cut ready - some 1.9g 0802 1S / 2S motors are also now at hand which are very sweet!

I have almost everything now apart form a step down so that if I use a 2S on this it can drop the voltage for the FPV camera - so i will start soldering and assembling soon and see how it goes.

Not looking too bad for a first print on basisc settings - and my glass hot bed means that motor mount is like a mirror
Oct 21, 2019, 08:05 AM
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Zeroine's Avatar
Time for some updates again.

I started building a 50 few days ago, and at this point it is almost finished and ready for maiden flight. Basically missing a camera and prop anymore, so just waiting for motivation to finish it, haha.

Big thanks to Keppis for tips and help whenever I asked.

Build started off good, and went pretty well until I started adding electronics..
The problem was that I stole the electronics from my Micro SU-27 plane, so in the process of disassembling it, power cable from VTX to ESC came off and ripped the pad off the circuit board too (took forever to figure out why motor wasn't giving all the bleeps, but as it turns out it was due to that wire, which I also first soldered in to wrong spot because I thought it came off from the pad where power from battery comes..) After few failed attemps to solder it back, I ended up soldering it directly on to the FET near the pad (it would have gone throught the FET anyway).
More frustration arised after 2 of 3 motor wires came off too. Those were easy peasy to solder back, but it was annoying anyhow.

So I start figuring out spots where to install everything, which was easy and didn't really have much options either due to limited lenghts of the wires.
Few test fits later, ground from VTX to ESC comes off, and we are back to soldering again *sigh*.

Everything found their places, but somehow I slightly messed up CG eventhough I checked it multiple times. So now camera would bring too much weight to the front. Hence I haven't installed the camera yet, because I am yet to figure out how I wanna do it; like I originally thought and use (already installed) BEC to power up the camera (and install camera further back) , OR take off the BEC and replace it with 1S battery to power the camera, which then allows me to install camera where I originally wanted it.. Decisions, desicions..

All in all, the build is pretty straightforward and easy, but I would recommend buying electronics, and not taking them from pre-build plane or wing. Too much hassle.

Currently it should weight around 57g, with the BEC config and without tapes.

Some wing tapes are also on their way for the 50, so as soon as they arrive, I'll finish it and take it for a spin.

I've also got quite a few pics from the process, but gonna upload just few to this.

In other news,
40 is doing great and my skills are improving. Even managed to fly gaps yesterday.
It is still rocking original wing and fuselage, though they are pretty beat up at this point.
I have new wing and fuselage waiting, but I don't feel like it renewing it just yet. Need to get a little bit better so I won't trash them immediately.

Video from yesterdays 40 flight:
Training, failing, learning. (4 min 47 sec)
Oct 21, 2019, 09:12 AM
Registered User
Modellermark,
definitely on the right direction on the project, thought it will never match the lightness of a foam or Depron fuselage, but it will be interesting to see how it'll perform and hold up against the upcoming abuse!
Have you thought to use a regular ESC with BEC, I've been using those since the first iterations and powered the camera straight from the receiver on 2S builds We've also tried some BLHeli programmed drone ESCs with separate BEC circuits to bring the voltage down to 5V because of the servos too but depending on the motor some "regular ESC" perform better. Or that's how I've experienced so far. Keep us posted!

Zeroine,
glad to see you got your build finished even you encountered some problems on the way And with quite good documentation.
All the builds are some sort of individuals even you have the exact same components to build with. But for some reason the following ones are always more straight forward when building. The build itself was easy I guess but the wiring with short wires, bad initial solderings and such amped up the difficulty. Hope it flies well, I'm keen to see how the gyro and the "training wheels" work in it xD I was thinking of scrapping my SU-27 for the same reason eventually but you beat me to it!
Glad I could provide some help on the puzzling parts.

And don't worry about the weight, it's relatively light compared to my 50 with AMAXinno 1103, rudder servo, 7 gram camera and 2S 300mAh battery, it hit 71 grams on the scale, some 60 sized are lighter than that
Maybe I should revert back to AP-03 motor and 2s 180mAh packs to shave some of the weight.

Also help is in the mail, a few props and a Caddx Beetle.
Lighter camera and wing tapes should bring the CoG closer to desired, rest is up to your preference or course.

It's also a pleasure to see your AD/HD 40 perform so well now, can't wait to see you doing more crazy stuff with it!


Last indoor session there weren't that many AD/HDs around so I started flying over the ceiling lamps which was quite fun after you got a hang of it. Got to edit a video out of it soon.
Oct 21, 2019, 09:42 AM
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modellermark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keppis
Modellermark,
definitely on the right direction on the project, thought it will never match the lightness of a foam or Depron fuselage, but it will be interesting to see how it'll perform and hold up against the upcoming abuse!
Have you thought to use a regular ESC with BEC, I've been using those since the first iterations and powered the camera straight from the receiver on 2S builds We've also tried some BLHeli programmed drone ESCs with separate BEC circuits to bring the voltage down to 5V because of the servos too but depending on the motor some "regular ESC" perform better. Or that's how I've experienced so far. Keep us posted!
.
Keppis ... i did plan to use a regular esc to start with but was concerned with the voltages.
Reading again the camera is OK to use 3.3 to 5.5V so that would be fine on the BEC but the servos do say 3.7/4.2V so i was thinking i needed to bring it down to feed the receiver and hence the servos ?
Have you use the micro servos from a 5V BEC?
Thanks
Mark
Oct 21, 2019, 11:56 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by modellermark
Keppis ... i did plan to use a regular esc to start with but was concerned with the voltages.
Reading again the camera is OK to use 3.3 to 5.5V so that would be fine on the BEC but the servos do say 3.7/4.2V so i was thinking i needed to bring it down to feed the receiver and hence the servos ?
Have you use the micro servos from a 5V BEC?
Thanks
Mark
Ah yes, now I get the problem.
If that's the case I'd say you have to get different servos for this 2S project and use those on max 4.2V voltage on 1S configuration.
I've used HK-5320 Ultra Micro Digital and HK-5330 Ultra-Micro Digital Servos on 40 sized ones with 1S HV LiPos (4.35V) with no problem.
Could you please link the servos you intended to use? Someone might have info or experience about them with 5V.
Oct 21, 2019, 04:12 PM
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modellermark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keppis
Ah yes, now I get the problem.
If that's the case I'd say you have to get different servos for this 2S project and use those on max 4.2V voltage on 1S configuration.
I've used HK-5320 Ultra Micro Digital and HK-5330 Ultra-Micro Digital Servos on 40 sized ones with 1S HV LiPos (4.35V) with no problem.
Could you please link the servos you intended to use? Someone might have info or experience about them with 5V.
I think it is these https://www.banggood.com/2Pcs-1_7g-L...r_warehouse=CN
They came with the J3 Cub:
https://www.banggood.com/J3-Cub-Mini...r_warehouse=UK
If anyone know if they work on 5V that would be great ...otherwise i will use some others
Thanks
Oct 21, 2019, 04:27 PM
Registered User
Well, even the name states that they're low voltage servos so I suggest you switch them to a tad beefier ones just in case. Even if you would use them with a step down converter their torque might not be enough for this project. If someone has other opinions they're more than welcome
Oct 22, 2019, 08:11 AM
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modellermark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keppis
Well, even the name states that they're low voltage servos so I suggest you switch them to a tad beefier ones just in case. Even if you would use them with a step down converter their torque might not be enough for this project. If someone has other opinions they're more than welcome
Thanks - some coming from HobbyKing
Oct 23, 2019, 06:34 AM
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modellermark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by modellermark
Thanks - some coming from HobbyKing
I have found a couple of 3.7g servos so am re-printing the front with offset larger servo openings (so they don't hit in the middle) and will give it a try like that.
It will all end up heavier than i planned but with the 6mm wing hopefully will fly - though i am wondering if my motors will be up to it now!
When i get chance to finish it i will update but it could still be a week or two.
Oct 23, 2019, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modellermark
I have found a couple of 3.7g servos so am re-printing the front with offset larger servo openings (so they don't hit in the middle) and will give it a try like that.
It will all end up heavier than i planned but with the 6mm wing hopefully will fly - though i am wondering if my motors will be up to it now!
When i get chance to finish it i will update but it could still be a week or two.
How much power or thrust do the motors produce? You don't necessarily need 1:1 or greater power to weight ratio to fly.
It will fly, but it will be a bit heavy and have to fly a bit faster or course.
Don't know if you should go straight with a 60 cm wing or do a hybrid; fuselage of the 50 with a wingspan of 60 with wing root being 25 cm instead of 30 cm to accommodate the increased weight and wing loading. You'd also need to recalculate the CG then.

I could say my 50 is a heavy hog, but I couldn't tell much of a difference between 66 and 71 grams, merely the difference between the CGs and stability than in flying speed and agility.
Here's a clip from the last indoor session.
Fieldview 777SB test and indoor FPV (4 min 31 sec)
Oct 23, 2019, 11:40 AM
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Zeroine's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keppis
Zeroine,
glad to see you got your build finished even you encountered some problems on the way And with quite good documentation.
All the builds are some sort of individuals even you have the exact same components to build with. But for some reason the following ones are always more straight forward when building. The build itself was easy I guess but the wiring with short wires, bad initial solderings and such amped up the difficulty. Hope it flies well, I'm keen to see how the gyro and the "training wheels" work in it xD I was thinking of scrapping my SU-27 for the same reason eventually but you beat me to it!
Glad I could provide some help on the puzzling parts.

And don't worry about the weight, it's relatively light compared to my 50 with AMAXinno 1103, rudder servo, 7 gram camera and 2S 300mAh battery, it hit 71 grams on the scale, some 60 sized are lighter than that
Maybe I should revert back to AP-03 motor and 2s 180mAh packs to shave some of the weight.

Also help is in the mail, a few props and a Caddx Beetle.
Lighter camera and wing tapes should bring the CoG closer to desired, rest is up to your preference or course.

It's also a pleasure to see your AD/HD 40 perform so well now, can't wait to see you doing more crazy stuff with it!
Now it is ready to fly finally, but too bad weather is what it is in autumn, so we'll see when I get a chance to maiden it.

I kinda regret tearing the SU apart to be honest. Should've just bought all the stuff.

I got some weight off with that Beetle you sent me, and can put it in a lot better spot than the Eachine DVR03 I had for it.

While waiting for better weather I might just change antenna to the other Beetle I had and swap that to the 40. And if that fails, 40 is going to be a LOS wing for a while then.

Also tapes arrived today, so that's other thing I'll do meanwhile.
Oct 23, 2019, 12:11 PM
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modellermark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by modellermark
I have found a couple of 3.7g servos so am re-printing the front with offset larger servo openings (so they don't hit in the middle) and will give it a try like that.
It will all end up heavier than i planned but with the 6mm wing hopefully will fly - though i am wondering if my motors will be up to it now!
When i get chance to finish it i will update but it could still be a week or two.
Print finished - servos fitted - 3 parts become one and trying it with a prop from a little predator drone plane i have.

BEC / ESC almost ready (got to remove the bullet connectors to save a bit more weight) and small receiver ready - so some soldering to do and i should be there.

Wing and fin are cut (normal sizes) so i will just see how it goes - easy to peel the wing off and do a bigger one if needs be.

Being completely hollow means i can put the ESC, RX and Battery almost anywhere so i will look to fit the wing, fin and pushrods next then do the rest to suit the CofG. I may leave the FPV camera until it has been test flown (or not!)

EDIT - just weighed everything - without the battery and with the 6mm wing not yet sanded and bullets still on the ESC it is 74g ... just gives an idea of where it should end up


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