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Feb 03, 2019, 04:18 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzmanb


.
Thanks for sharing Jazzman.

So I guess the AS3X + SAFE complexity is
The problems for those who tried to program
It for their planes. Just like many hate Gyro :-)


By those Videos, the Preprogramed SAFE planes Should be bullet proof, idiots proof, at least for hand launching. It should be peace of mind, and pleasure indeed.

Those planes with Preprogramed SAFE are great for Park flyers :-)


Thanks jazzman.

.
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Feb 03, 2019, 05:51 AM
Registered User
I'm not sure it's the ideal mentality to think of planes as "idiot proof". And I think that is a problem with SAFE, or at least with how it is marketed and perceived by many. Yeah the guy in those videos sure made it look nifty, but he knew how to set it up for one thing. Who knows what happened before, between, and after those clips though. For all we know he went through a few planes...

I personally don't like or want SAFE (don't fly Spektrum anyway..) - or gyros.. I like to fly the plane myself. I do like the idea of gyro help for flying in high wind, but I personally can't be asked to a.) switch to Spektrum, with 25ish models, or b.) bother with Frsky stab systems like the S6R... So I just live with my own reflexes... I am not saying my approach is right. It does however preclude the possibility of crashing due to an incorrectly set up stab system...
Feb 03, 2019, 05:59 AM
Foam addict
4stripes's Avatar
Proper setup is key but once you know the basics of gyro installation there is no reason not to take full advantage of the benefits IMO. The benefits in turbulence are impressive. The plane that got me hooked on gyros was the tiny UMX Mig21. Without a gyro it would never be able to fly so well in any wind but thanks to the gyro it behaves like a much larger plane.
The new SAFE systems do work however some guidance and care about the switch positions is necessary.

BTW I also don’t care for Spectrum but I bought a TX just to fly the Mig as it is one plane I just had to have. It is adorable.
Feb 03, 2019, 06:03 AM
Registered User
So far I tried a gyro once, in the form of a Lemon 7-ch stab receiver, on a Reptile wing, and absolutely hated it. It was porpoising all over the place, and ultimately crashed a few times. Finally I was able to fly the wing by turning the damn thing off. I know, I know.... - turn down the gains. But what, every time the wind changes? I know, I could have invested more effort into it, but it was such a PIA I just decided to live without, and so far I'm fine with that... Porpoising and experimentation(landing, adjusting, repeat, repeat, repeat etc..) and the risk of crashing due to a system not working which is supposed to prevent crashes (thus negating its porpoise, to me anyway.. Ha ha, pun intended..) are just not options for me when it comes to flying.

ps I also had a UMX Yak 54, which was also a porpoising horrible POC... Thank god I was able to sell it (for half of what I paid, used..) and at least get something for it. In addition to ridding it from my eyesight...
Feb 03, 2019, 06:43 AM
Foam addict
4stripes's Avatar
Obviously something wasn’t set up right. I never have to change gains. I have never had loss of control due to gyro gains being too high. It sounds more like the response was reversed in the gyro or the gyro wasn’t secured well.
I have set up (and flown) around two dozen gyros so far. I have no issues installing right from brand new (pre-maiden).

Let another flier with gyro experience show you how to check for proper response before you try again.
Once you understand how it should work it is easy.
Last edited by 4stripes; Feb 03, 2019 at 06:54 AM.
Feb 03, 2019, 06:58 AM
Registered User
I did do that with the last Lemon attempt - and it crashed. Just hated the whole experience... Finally I just switched it off and................ it flew. It was like a revelation. I was so annoyed at having wasted all that effort..

With a Taranis you have to go with an S6R, and that is a freakin' nightmare, so not doing that either...

I do have the Orange module, so could try a Lemon receiver again, but would in reality almost certainly never bother. Maybe some day if a BNF really really appeals to me(and the price is right, which is highly unlikely in Europe for anything from E-flite...)
Feb 03, 2019, 07:17 AM
Foam addict
4stripes's Avatar
You don’t have to go S6R. If you use a HobbyEagle or other stand alone simple gyro between your current RX and the servos it will work, and likely be an easier setup.
You can also simplify the gyro install by only hooking it up to the ailerons and skip the elevator and rudder. The main thing to watch for is that when you change the aircrafts position, the control surface moves to correct the change. For example, bank the plane left, the ailerons should move to start a right roll. This must be done before flight. From level, point the nose up and the elevator should move to correct with down elevator. Swing the nose left and the rudder should correct with right rudder.
But as stated before, ailerons only works really well and is a simple setup (with a stand alone gyro).
Good luck!

PS, having rudder inputs through a gyro is much more beneficial for prop driven tail dragger planes. The rudder corrections for torque on takeoff really work well.
Feb 03, 2019, 11:44 AM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herrsavage
I'm not sure it's the ideal mentality to think of planes as "idiot proof". And I think that is a problem with SAFE, or at least with how it is marketed and perceived by many. Yeah the guy in those videos sure made it look nifty, but he knew how to set it up for one thing. Who knows what happened before, between, and after those clips though. For all we know he went through a few planes...

I personally don't like or want SAFE (don't fly Spektrum anyway..) - or gyros.. I like to fly the plane myself. I do like the idea of gyro help for flying in high wind, but I personally can't be asked to a.) switch to Spektrum, with 25ish models, or b.) bother with Frsky stab systems like the S6R... So I just live with my own reflexes... I am not saying my approach is right. It does however preclude the possibility of crashing due to an incorrectly set up stab system...
No its very easy to setup. You dont adjust anything. No gyro settings,its already tuned for the plane. No issues what so ever. Probably very little trimming on surfaces needed either. The pilot is Ali,he flies very similarly to how do except he has business sense and is very very well known lol. A smooth,scale pilot. Safe is not hard to program,you dont do nothing except bind it and assign to a switch. I do it with the eflight stuff to get the max throw then turn it off.
Feb 03, 2019, 12:09 PM
Registered User
There have been pages and pages of SAFE bla bla in the V900 thread.. Lots of talk of trying to adjust this or that, talk of figuring out how to get it on a switch, and on and on. My point is just that, if SAFE were really all that idiot-proof, all these SAFE crashes would not be happening. I almost think there have been more crashes WITH (dare I say because of?..) SAFE than without it..

So the point ultimately is that it's not the system - it's the person using it. SAFE is not a guarantee. SAFE fans will say "well yeah it is, if you set it up right" etc etc... If.. And yet many of these guys are buying it thinking it will save them, when in fact it's doing the opposite. Well actually they're kind of doing it to themselves, by placing too much trust in something, perhaps in the wrong way. But whatever the case, it's pretty absurd to buy a SAFE equipped plane because you think it will "save" you, only to have it lead to a crash.

My first plane - a Delta Ray - had SAFE, and I quickly learned I had to ween myself off of it. For among other reasons, not having enough turning angle to avoid obstacles in tighter spaces. SAFE - for me - served a good purpose when I was an absolute beginner, in helping me overcome just the psychological threshhold of surviving my first few flights at all. But I was very glad when I got past it and left it behind. And good riddens afaic...
Feb 03, 2019, 12:20 PM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herrsavage
There have been pages and pages of SAFE bla bla in the V900 thread.. Lots of talk of trying to adjust this or that, talk of figuring out how to get it on a switch, and on and on. My point is just that, if SAFE were really all that idiot-proof, all these SAFE crashes would not be happening. I almost think there have been more crashes WITH (dare I say because of?..) SAFE than without it..

So the point ultimately is that it's not the system - it's the person using it. SAFE is not a guarantee. SAFE fans will say "well yeah it is, if you set it up right" etc etc... If.. And yet many of these guys are buying it thinking it will save them, when in fact it's doing the opposite. Well actually they're kind of doing it to themselves, by placing too much trust in something, perhaps in the wrong way. But whatever the case, it's pretty absurd to buy a SAFE equipped plane because you think it will "save" you, only to have it lead to a crash.

My first plane - a Delta Ray - had SAFE, and I quickly learned I had to ween myself off of it. For among other reasons, not having enough turning angle to avoid obstacles in tighter spaces. SAFE - for me - served a good purpose when I was an absolute beginner, in helping me overcome just the psychological threshhold of surviving my first few flights at all. But I was very glad when I got past it and left it behind. And good riddens afaic...
Unless your a beginner why use it? Lots of crashes of the v900 was pilot error. Far too often newish to average pilots get way too ahead of themselves and the false ego builds. This results in crashes in fast planes. Safe would be EXCELLENT for hand launching then turning off once airborne. Also you cant adjust the gyro settings or safe,i mean you could on a computer but why lol. You simply assign to a switch and turn off/on. No need to change or adjust a single thing. Dont want to use it, easy turn it off. No need to make the simple complicated.
Last edited by jazzmanb; Feb 03, 2019 at 12:27 PM.
Feb 03, 2019, 12:36 PM
Registered User
Agreed on that.. Just telling you what I've observed in the V900 thread. It's a SAFE train wreck ha ha... Has been for a long time. It had actually put me off the plane, but Jason Cole's review clip made me want it again. Still haven't gotten it, but probably will eventually.... PNP of course.

BTW, a lot of non-beginners seem to love SAFE. I don't begrudge them that of course. People can do and want what they want....

(I do wonder about the rationale though when people say things like "it lets me fly to the edge of being able to maintain orientation, then I can just press a button and be all good again..." But again - it's their plane, and their way of doing things. Shrug...)
Feb 03, 2019, 12:47 PM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herrsavage
Agreed on that.. Just telling you what I've observed in the V900 thread. It's a SAFE train wreck ha ha... Has been for a long time. It had actually put me off the plane, but Jason Cole's review clip made me want it again. Still haven't gotten it, but probably will eventually.... PNP of course.
Got ya. Yeah ive never used it. I mean i set up my radio with it in the viper and f16 in it to get max rudder throws then turn it off. I did turn it on once in the viper just to see what it did . I can see how it can save a pilot that gets disoriented as it would flip them upright. I dont think any pilot should rely on anything but their skillset, and so safe imo should only be used at the beggining,those that dont have great vision anymore,or on those rare occasions someone gets disoriented. I feel no one should use it as a crutch to stop them from naturally getting better,developing and growing the muscle memory. Our skillsets should have our own 'Safe' and in time fully relaxed but focused from putting in the thousands of hours in this passion We should all try to be spirtually connected to the flying at some point . Thats what its about, its truly meditation. Its extreme focus without the thinking,truly relaxed and in it spirtually and emotionally..
Last edited by jazzmanb; Feb 03, 2019 at 12:52 PM.
Feb 03, 2019, 01:14 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes
Proper setup is key but once you know the basics of gyro installation there is no reason not to take full advantage of the benefits IMO. The benefits in turbulence are impressive. The plane that got me hooked on gyros was the tiny UMX Mig21. Without a gyro it would never be able to fly so well in any wind but thanks to the gyro it behaves like a much larger plane.
The new SAFE systems do work however some guidance and care about the switch positions is necessary.

BTW I also donít care for Spectrum but I bought a TX just to fly the Mig as it is one plane I just had to have. It is adorable.


UMX Mig 21... Really?
Or you meant UMX Mig 15 :-)


.
Feb 03, 2019, 01:29 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzmanb
No its very easy to setup. You dont adjust anything. No gyro settings,its already tuned for the plane. No issues what so ever. Probably very little trimming on surfaces needed either. The pilot is Ali,he flies very similarly to how do except he has business sense and is very very well known lol. A smooth,scale pilot. Safe is not hard to program,you dont do nothing except bind it and assign to a switch. I do it with the eflight stuff to get the max throw then turn it off.

Jazzman.

I am still using the early 2001 Spektrum Dx7, v1. He he...

Do you think it is OK to get this F15 and use with My vintage DX7 v1, for park flying. Will my Dx7 works well with it ? . I just use the 3 switch stick on my DX7, and turn off SAFE right after the hand launch :-) ... or maybe just leave it on to have fun flying with SAFE :-)


I just try to eliminate the hand launch nightmare at the park with SAFE... :-)

.
Last edited by flylow2011; Feb 03, 2019 at 01:37 PM.
Feb 03, 2019, 01:57 PM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by flylow2011
Jazzman.

I am still using the early 2001 Spektrum Dx7, v1. He he...

Do you think it is OK to get this F15 and use with My vintage DX7 v1, for park flying. Will my Dx7 works well with it ? . I just use the 3 switch stick on my DX7, and turn off SAFE right after the hand launch :-) ... or maybe just leave it on to have fun flying with SAFE :-)


I just try to eliminate the hand launch nightmare at the park with SAFE... :-)

.
This dx 7 I Loved those radios I use my dx9 but still have these two dx7s. I loved them even more then the dx9 feel wise I think the dx7 will be fine and you can assign the safe to any switch you like You dont do it by menu but by triggering any switch you want 5 times on/off during binding


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