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Jan 13, 2005, 11:36 PM
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Brushless Tail Motor And Esc Help?


I just received my new brushless tail motor setup. In order for the tail motor to work before I got the brushless setup I needed to make a Y cord from the stock 3 in 1 to the brushless ESC which I purchased for the main motor. Now that I have my brushless motor and ESC for the tail, do I need to Y cord this ESC to the throttle channel and Y cord it to the rudder channel? Keep in mind that the throttle channel is already Y corded.
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Jan 14, 2005, 01:04 AM
micro mechanic
aerohawk1's Avatar
ummm...
you cant use a 3in1 with a bl esc.

as far as I know,I'm the only one doing that right now...

what 3in1 is it?
Jan 14, 2005, 03:56 AM
"Simplify, then add lightness"
What kind of gyro do you have? If it is a simple rate gyro, you will need to have revo mix on your transmitter. Simple "Y" cords will not do it. There are some that have modified mixer boards to drive an external tail esc, but unless yours was exactly the same, or you have have a scope and the skill, it would be a major undertaking.
Jan 14, 2005, 12:57 PM
"ummm...
you cant use a 3in1 with a bl esc.

as far as I know,I'm the only one doing that right now..."

Aero:
Bit of a 180 there??

MGM:
It's been done at least with SmartTech 3-in-1's and possibly with Picollo mixers. On these, a mixed rudder signal is available at one input pin of the TR speed control PIC micro. Definitely "void your warrantee" kind of stuff to solder a tap in there. A search of this forum and Paul Goelz (Sp?) site will get you about as much info as you will find. I'll let you be the judge if you have the electronic skills (or risk tolerance) to go forward. Access to an oscilloscope is pretty key.
Jan 14, 2005, 01:59 PM
micro mechanic
aerohawk1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaDot
"ummm...
you cant use a 3in1 with a bl esc.

as far as I know,I'm the only one doing that right now..."

Aero:
Bit of a 180 there??

MGM:
It's been done at least with SmartTech 3-in-1's and possibly with Picollo mixers. On these, a mixed rudder signal is available at one input pin of the TR speed control PIC micro. Definitely "void your warrantee" kind of stuff to solder a tap in there. A search of this forum and Paul Goelz (Sp?) site will get you about as much info as you will find. I'll let you be the judge if you have the electronic skills (or risk tolerance) to go forward. Access to an oscilloscope is pretty key.
I guess I should have said "the only one TRYING to do this".

it's been done?
where?
not on Pauls site...

as far as I know,I'm breaking new ground in this dept...
I've never seen or heard of anyone else who has done this.
Jan 14, 2005, 03:51 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohawk1
I guess I should have said "the only one TRYING to do this".

it's been done?
where?
not on Pauls site...

as far as I know,I'm breaking new ground in this dept...
I've never seen or heard of anyone else who has done this.
paul did use a sep tail esc with the piccoboard.
link : http://www.pgoelz.com/piccolo_separate_tail_esc.html
Jan 14, 2005, 04:39 PM
micro mechanic
aerohawk1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash-Expert
paul did use a sep tail esc with the piccoboard.
link : http://www.pgoelz.com/piccolo_separate_tail_esc.html
thats not a brushless controller,though.

nor will that mod work with one.
Jan 14, 2005, 04:49 PM
Registered User
why wont it work then.. imo if you can use a normal esc than you also can use a brushless esc. or a servo. it's just the signal wire you need.
Jan 14, 2005, 08:06 PM
micro mechanic
aerohawk1's Avatar
it just doesn't...not sure why,but Castle Creations had to customize my Pheonix 10 to make it work(and still having probs... ).

that signal will operate servos and most brushed esc's,though.
would make a nice mod for a shaft driven tail heli
Jan 14, 2005, 09:22 PM
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Thread OP
I went to Pauls site and picked up some information. I ordered an Ikarus micro gyro and Optic 6 TX with the spektra module. I read in the brushless setup forum that if you are running a brushless tail setup and main motor setup, it is possible to have your mixing capabilities if you had a separate gyro and revo mixing TX. What I got out of it was, what you need to do if you are disgarding your picco board or in my case the GWS 3 in 1 you need to have a separate gyro. You need to Y connect the negative and positive cords of your tail ESC to the main motor ESC cords, and plug that cord into the throttle channel of course. This way your tail motor is getting a throttle signal. After doing that you connect your signal wire from your tail ESC into the gyro and plug the gyro into the rudder channel of your receiver. You can adjust your mixing by holding the rudder stick in the full left position, and making needed adjustments to your trim as you go along. Also making the necessary adjustments to your gyro. This could be done with a 4 channel TX im thinking so I thought why not a heli TX with revo mix. I did some research on heli radios, and the Optic 6 seems to be the best bet because of price and it has revo mix for helis, along with many other cool configurations based on your needs and what type of aircraft your flying. I think this is the less complicated answer to my problems, but then again it may complicate them further, so whish me luck and spank my A**
Last edited by M.G.M; Jan 14, 2005 at 09:28 PM. Reason: cuz
Jan 15, 2005, 09:24 AM
"You need to Y connect the negative and positive cords of your tail ESC to the main motor ESC cords, and plug that cord into the throttle channel of course. This way your tail motor is getting a throttle signal."


For your separates setup, the connection you describe does not send a throttle signal to the tail. What is would do is send power from the TR ESC and MR ESC to the Rx. What's missing from your description is the Y connection of the power leads of both ESCs to the battery.

The signal for the tail comes strictly from the rudder channel, through the gyro, to the TR ESC. Any MR influence on the TR is either mixed in at the tranmitter (REVO mode and Rate Gyro) or not used at all and replaced by integrating functions in the gyro (HH mode)

Good luck

Aero:
Sorry I thought you had once posted that it was working and I knew the signal at the 3-in-1 was valid. Is the P10 the only BL game in town?
Jan 15, 2005, 03:04 PM
micro mechanic
aerohawk1's Avatar
maybe it will work with a jeti or some other bl controller
I honestly dont know.
I just know that it wont work with Castle bl processors.
Jan 15, 2005, 04:03 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Ok, so I over looked that part when I was discribing what im planing on doing, but of course that was the first thing I did. I mean unless I want to run two batteries, which I dont cuz the helis already starting to get a bit on the heavy side.


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