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Jun 03, 2019, 02:01 PM
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Maiden flight + 5 more in some heavyish winds today. The plane didn't seem to mind. I need to find a better way to launch, because every throw minus one rolled hard to the right. AS3X and reflexes (mostly the former) saved every bad throw. The one good throw was more of a release, so I'll try that more.

3:30 minutes of mixed.throttle on 1800mah packs brought them to ~3.75 volts per cell. I'll try lighter packs; mine pulls ~45A with a fully charged pack, which a 1300-1500mah pack can handle, and it'll be worth the shorter flights.if I can throw it around a little easier.

Although it would get up to a decent speed, it didn't accelerate well, even going downwind. That, combined with a less than stellar elevator authority created some pretty close calls. I'm considering a delta wing setup, hoping that the combination of flaperons and elevons will allow some tighter yank in the bank n yank, and maybe a better roll rate as well.

I'm considering a higher power setup, but not really sure how far to go. I have a ~60A 4s setup, 6 blade, 4300kv without a home right now, but was considering for a Freewing Panther. Maybe it'll go here, if I can fit the bigger ESC. If the delta programming helps enough with elevator authority I'll probably just leave it.
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Jun 03, 2019, 02:10 PM
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Also, I made some skids from some leftover plastic bits I had. They're very hard plastic, and protect the ESC. They skid so well, I could probably takeoff from concrete if I had enough room. I landed on grass today, but I'll be trying some concrete ops before long. Get some good scrapes on them.
Jun 03, 2019, 05:45 PM
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I got the AR636A rx out of there this afternoon while the kiddo napped, and pulled out the absurdly long y cable to the ailerons so I can isolate them and program it as dual aileron. I'll mix each aileron to the elevator so they'll 1) do aileron stuff and 2) act as flaps when I pull up and spoilers when I push down. I got the idea from Ali Machinchy doing the same on the 70mm F16. I think it should be two simple mixes, hopefully it will work here as well as it did there. More on that after kiddo bedtime.
Last edited by RustySpork; Jun 03, 2019 at 09:14 PM.
Jun 03, 2019, 09:16 PM
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I got the ailerons isolated to aileron and flap channel. Then mixed each to elevator at 40%. I may do more if the servos aren’t over driven. If it helps much/any I’ll post it up so others can try.
Jun 04, 2019, 01:43 PM
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Is there anywhere to get the program for a spektrum radio? I have gotten them before for indoor umx planes.
Jun 04, 2019, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crownpointaero
Is there anywhere to get the program for a spektrum radio? I have gotten them before for indoor umx planes.
Are you referring to the receiver data? If that's what you're looking for try this ling under receiver configurations.

http://spektrumrc.com/Products/Defau...6#prod_manuals
Jun 05, 2019, 04:06 PM
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5 more flights.today.

Doing a gentler release worked very well. It drops elevation as it gains initial speed, but will pull up every time easily.

My flaperon mix worked as intended. I started with a 40% mix and noticed improvement, generally. Second flight I bumped to 50%, and did 3 flights. At speed, 50% was better, more responsive. However, at low speed it felt stable but sluggish on both axes. It took a lot to make it actually stall, and I could do some very, very low and slow passes, but that was only in a straight line. It is very much an EDF, needing airspeed over the control surfaces.

Last flight I dropped the flaperon mix to 25%, and upped the elevator throw to 125%. This helped some, but I still can't quite toss this airframe around the way I like to without feeling like it might stall out without much notice. I'm not sure what that'll take just yet, but I'm going to keep trialling and erroring until it flies how I like. Maybe reversing the flaperon mix so the ailerons move up with the elevator instead of opposing them. Or maybe just go with more and more elevator throw.

I was really surprised at how slowly this plane will fly, even without stabilization. It's a very good airframe.
Jun 06, 2019, 09:39 PM
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Rusty, What's the C number on your battery? 30C? I'm having trouble launching it without it hitting the ground with a 4s 2200 30C. Broke the front twice and had to glue it back. Thinking of adding a piece of wood at the bottom around the CG so I can grasp it and throw javelin style. When a friend launched it for me I was able to fly it and it IS a sweet flyer!

Are you saying that a gentle upward toss (say 45 degrees) works better than a 10 degree up Javelin throw? When I saw people do that in the horizon videos, I was thinking they must be using a lighter battery or a 45C to 50C one.
Last edited by AstroHamFlyer; Jun 06, 2019 at 10:09 PM.
Jun 06, 2019, 10:17 PM
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I'm using venom batteries, 1800mah 4s 75C. They perform more like 30C packs though.

I've got pretty big hands, so I'm able to grab the underside (a little behind the CG works for me) easily, but I think my trouble was holding it too tightly. When I threw it javelin (or football) style, it would torque hard to the right, and lose almost all of it's altitude before I could get the nose back up. I found that if I just didn't grip it so tightly, and release it at the top of my throwing arc with the nose up at about 45*, it would still arc downward, but without that hard roll to the right. With the wing level I could get the nose up before it hit the ground. The trick is a good throw but a gentle release with the nose up, not the hard push I was doing. If that makes any sense.
Jun 06, 2019, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustySpork
I'm using venom batteries, 1800mah 4s 75C. They perform more like 30C packs though.


I've got pretty big hands, so I'm able to grab the underside (a little behind the CG works for me) easily, but I think my trouble was holding it too tightly. When I threw it javelin (or football) style, it would torque hard to the right, and lose almost all of it's altitude before I could get the nose back up. I found that if I just didn't grip it so tightly, and release it at the top of my throwing arc with the nose up at about 45*, it would still arc downward, but without that hard roll to the right. With the wing level I could get the nose up before it hit the ground. The trick is a good throw but a gentle release with the nose up, not the hard push I was doing. If that makes any sense.
Thanks

Is that because they're old or do all venom batteries have lower capacity than claimed? I have to measure the voltage drop on my 2200/30C to see what it's really doing. If the current draw is 45A, a pack that really puts out 30C should work fine.


Right. In my case, it hits the ground without any roll. However, I'm throwing it like 15 degrees up. I think the bottom line is that a 30C cell is probably more for a runway takeoff. Probably need 50C for a hand launch.

Those guys in the videos are just gently pushing it up - must be having a 45-50C battery

-A
Last edited by AstroHamFlyer; Jun 06, 2019 at 11:07 PM.
Jun 06, 2019, 11:47 PM
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Well, the consensus is that current battery technology in these applications can only go as high as 55C, and those are the absolute highest quality packs. There’s a great thread about this here:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...st-Comparisons

The first page sums up everything, but it’s a good (long) read. Manufacturers, good or bad, are putting pretty much whatever C rating they want on the label, but some are actually good/great packs that will maintain voltage much better than others with a higher C rating claim and similar capacity. That’s all a talk for another day though.

Here, I measured 45A on my venom packs, and 720watts, so approx 16v under load, or 4.0/cell. That’s fairly good, but at approx 25C, it isn’t asking much of the pack. They’re alright for this plane.

Your 2200mah packs are, at an assumed 45A, are working at about 21C, so unless they are old or very poor quality, should maintain voltage under that load well enough. You *may* have a weight issue, but reading your post just now, I suspect a higher launch angle would benefit you. When I release the plane, it’s pointing pretty high, maybe even above 45*. I’d give that a shot, and hook it up to a wattmeter to check how well your battery is doing. Read joe’s thread on battery quality too, it’ll change your life for the better.
Jun 06, 2019, 11:50 PM
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Oh, and for what it’s worth, I did fly a 1.5 year old Thrust 1800mah 4s 30C pack that I got for free with my F27 Evo in this plane first. That pack has had an easy life, and had acceptable initial power, but after 3 minutes of maiden flight full throttle fun was almost too hot to touch.

What brand are you using? What’s the weight of your 4s 2200 30C? The Thrust and Venom packs are 205 grams.
Jun 07, 2019, 12:05 AM
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Wow, Thanks for the great info! I'm still at work but will go home and measure the weight of my pack just in case but Its a brand new Venom 4s 2200mAH/30C. Yeah, as per HH the pack weighs- 7.2 oz (204.7g)

I think you're right about the more vertical throw. For some reason that seems to work better as per the videos too..Will try tomorrow.. I suspect the vertical rate is higher with a more vertical throw (almost full thrust of the fan is used to accelerate the airplane) than a more horizontal throw where the vertical rate has to come from the increased lift of the wings due to the airflow speed increase..and then there's SAFE also doing its own thing..

-A
Jun 07, 2019, 12:16 AM
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I just watched a couple of those videos back too, where they're goofing around with the porta john and stuff like that, and I see it too. They have the nose pretty high, more than I thought even. And, having flown both with AS3X and without, I feel like this airframe is so stable and resistant to stall that the higher angle will be OK. I'm gonna have to go give that a try tomorrow too.
Jun 07, 2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustySpork
I just watched a couple of those videos back too, where they're goofing around with the porta john and stuff like that, and I see it too. They have the nose pretty high, more than I thought even. And, having flown both with AS3X and without, I feel like this airframe is so stable and resistant to stall that the higher angle will be OK. I'm gonna have to go give that a try tomorrow too.
Yep. I just tried the "launch almost vertical" method and it works like a charm - put your transmitter down with all the switches in the correct position and SAFE On, hold the airplane in front of you holding the leading edge of each wing with each hand. Toss upwards at say 80 degrees, hard but without causing a roll or pitch.

You have to have the right CG and trim neutral else it dips a little. The stability of this plane in SAFE is insane.

Thanks for the help!

-A


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