Thread Tools
Aug 24, 2019, 09:06 AM
It's a Boolean thing.
Miami Mike's Avatar
I'm happy to hear that you're going to work on something that's at least a variation of the "dual bind" concept but I don't understand why you can't just go with the simpler arrangement, which is that the receiver scans on power-up for one of the Tx ID and RxNum combinations that it knows, locks onto the first one it finds, and stays with it until the next power-up.

Just turn on either of your radios, turn on your model, and fly. What's wrong with that?
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Aug 24, 2019, 11:21 AM
nigelsheffield's Avatar
The problem with that is the potential for unintended connecting with a model of the tx is already turned on and flying something else, unlikely in most cases but mikes solution adds an extra level of safety which is seen by many as necessary, it also allows both txs to be used together to race a couple of quads.

I have used bayangtoys protocol which requires binding every time and it is no problem ( bind on a switch ) but there has once or twice been a situation where I flew with my daughter and bound to the wrong controls...

Nothing is fool proof with this dual bind and probably why there was so much resistance to implimenting it in the first place.

But I'm happy to use it if is there it would be a godsend to be able to use my x9d again when I don't mind a bigger tx rather than being stuck with the x-lite which doesn't have the same control with the gimbals just not as good.
Aug 24, 2019, 11:39 AM
ErskyTx Developer
Mike Blandford's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami Mike
. . .Just turn on either of your radios, turn on your model, and fly. What's wrong with that?
First it would need all the bind data for both transmitters to be stored (the Rx stores the complete hopping table), then the Rx will need to keep swapping at start up between the hopping tables to find which Tx is active. In addition, you may have one Tx on FCC and the other on EU-LBT (my X9D+ I use for flying is pre-2015 so is FCC but my newer radios are EU-LBT). Swapping between these takes a long time as the RF chip needs to be re-configured and all hopping frequencies then need re-calibrating.

Binding always uses RF channel 0, which is never used in the hopping table.

I also agree the need to do the bind provides an extra level of safety.

Mike
Last edited by Mike Blandford; Aug 24, 2019 at 11:47 AM.
Aug 24, 2019, 05:22 PM
Have Fun and Just Fly!
l shems's Avatar
Thread OP
Nice. Nice. Nice.
Aug 25, 2019, 09:57 AM
ErskyTx Developer
Mike Blandford's Avatar
Yes, it wasn't too much effort, this will be in the first published version of this new D16 firmware for the D8 receivers.

Mike
Aug 25, 2019, 01:17 PM
Have Fun and Just Fly!
l shems's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blandford
...
When powered up normally, the Rx will operate with the last bound Tx, however, for a short time after power on it will look to see if the other "registered" Tx is operating in bind mode. If it is, then the other Tx will become the one bound and the first will just be "registered"...
I hope this is only happening if the last transmitter is not transmitting.

Otherwise, this is not safe as someone could put or have the 'second' tx in bind mode and full throttle while getting out of bind mode.

Perhaps I miss something.
Aug 25, 2019, 02:44 PM
ErskyTx Developer
Mike Blandford's Avatar
While binding this "other" Tx, the servo outputs are inactive (still need to check the SBUS output at startup). When the bind completes the Rx stays in "bind" mode, flashing the red LED, and oesn't start normal operation until powered off and on again.

I was considering leaving bind mode upon completion, but, due to the possibility you describe, I'll leave things as they are.

Mike
Aug 25, 2019, 03:31 PM
Flying a Chipmunk in Portugal
jhsa's Avatar
Mike, 100% agree on everything.. Safety first..

Joćo
Aug 25, 2019, 04:00 PM
ErskyTx Developer
Mike Blandford's Avatar
I just picked up a slight problem with binding like this. Two options, telemetry on/off and servo outputs as ch1-8 or ch9-16, are sent from the Tx at bind time. Other options, e.g. ch8 as SBUS output, are set by placing links on channel outputs at bind time. If binding the "other" Tx, then any such links will probably not be present.
I think I've sorted this by using the physical links only if binding due to the button being pressed at power on, otherwise the options are copied for the value saved when the bind was done using the button.

Mike
Aug 26, 2019, 12:05 PM
Have Fun and Just Fly!
l shems's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blandford
While binding this "other" Tx, the servo outputs are inactive (still need to check the SBUS output at startup). When the bind completes the Rx stays in "bind" mode, flashing the red LED, and oesn't start normal operation until powered off and on again.

I was considering leaving bind mode upon completion, but, due to the possibility you describe, I'll leave things as they are.

Mike
Ok, so when powering on for normal flight, I should check if I still have control after this 'brief period' it checks for another registered radio sending a bind signal. If not, I should see the bind button flashing, indicating it is bound to another radio now.

Seems ok.

Still tricky if I power cycle the receiver because it doesn't respond? Or am I over concerned now?
Aug 26, 2019, 03:38 PM
ErskyTx Developer
Mike Blandford's Avatar
The "brief period" is currently about 0.55 seconds, although I think I can reduce that, probably to about 0.15 seconds. Bind commands are sent every 9mS, so I should pick one up in 0.15 seconds.

Also note that the Tx sends the bind commands at very low power, so the binding range is very short. I just tested trying to bind with the Rx on the bench and the Tx 10 feet (3m) away on the floor. The bind did not take place, the Rx was out of range. So unless your other transmitter is very close, and in bind mode when you turn the Rx on, it will not bind, and your intended Tx will just work.

Mike
Aug 27, 2019, 10:55 AM
Have Fun and Just Fly!
l shems's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blandford
The "brief period" is currently about 0.55 seconds, although I think I can reduce that, probably to about 0.15 seconds. Bind commands are sent every 9mS, so I should pick one up in 0.15 seconds.

Also note that the Tx sends the bind commands at very low power, so the binding range is very short. I just tested trying to bind with the Rx on the bench and the Tx 10 feet (3m) away on the floor. The bind did not take place, the Rx was out of range. So unless your other transmitter is very close, and in bind mode when you turn the Rx on, it will not bind, and your intended Tx will just work.

Mike
That fixed it. The missing info.

Perfect and simple procedure.

I will adapt the first post with it.

P.s. which receivers are you missing to test on? I can send them if I have them. I'm especially interested in D16 conversions to get dual bind.
Aug 27, 2019, 05:42 PM
ErskyTx Developer
Mike Blandford's Avatar
I'm starting with a D8R-II. I do also have D8R-II plus and D8R-XP, but that is all.
I want to prove all is working fully with the D8R-II before I try any others as once the firmware is changed you can't go back to the FrSky D8 firmware.

Mike


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Saturn 5 User's Guide TravisBean Life, The Universe, and Politics 4 Aug 24, 2018 11:39 PM
Discussion A user's guide..... Broken Wings Life, The Universe, and Politics 1 Jun 30, 2016 02:42 AM
Discussion TBS Discovery FPV camera relocate mount guide and Pixim camera users guide irfan5911 Multirotor Drone Talk 4 Nov 24, 2015 03:51 AM
Poll Walkera's - Consumer Reports Buying Guide for 67 Flavors Of Heli - By Users & 4 Users HeliFlyer711 Micro Helis 24 Jul 22, 2011 11:20 PM