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Dec 01, 2018, 06:24 PM
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Discussion

Klima Messerschmitt 163 rocket powered warbird


The only operational rocket fighter in aviation history now has an RC model that is actually powered by a rocket.
I came to RCgroups seeking for more information, but to my surprise there was no thread yet, so I created one.
I bought one and assembled it and hopefully I can have a successful maiden tomorrow or next week (the weather is awful at the moment).
It was hard to get the CoG forward. Carelessly putting some lead in the front needed some 70 grams. To minimize the amount of lead I searched for a cone shaped piece of lead I made once for s glider. I made a hole in the front cone in which I could fit that piece of lead and glued a 350 mAh 1S battery on it.

The cone together with the lead and the battery now weighs 54 grams. That's still a lot of dead weight I'm not that happy with, but CoG is the most important thing for a plane.

That battery is powering Frsky G-RX6 (which has a variometer) and 2 low voltage servo's.

I expect a 20 second flight, so 350 mAh is more than enough energy. I will come back soon to this thread to post mod information.

Where it can be bought: www.raketenmodellbau-klima.de
Last edited by hisroyaldudeness; Dec 02, 2018 at 03:16 PM.
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Dec 02, 2018, 01:42 PM
Registered User
Hey HRD


Thanks for the thread. Where did you find this one?



I have 2 others one from http://www.cloudmodels.com/komet.html and the Durafly from HK. The Cloud models Komit has a styrene body that went brittle and after a bad test throw and is in need of Dr. Frankenstein's help. It too needed much weight in the nose so being a smart ass thought a motor of appropriate weight would be better than the chunk of lead that was cast to replace the original nose cone and also fitted it with a 24mm rocket motor mount. When I saw the Durafly which came with provision for an electric and a rocket motor [cheap long kit] I snatched it up but have not got it in the air except for a few test throws.


Both planes are very fussy about CG. They are also unforgiving at low speed and very touchy at high unless you use low rates.


Please keep up the posts as you progress on this. I love rockets with wings, dunno why just do.



Richard
Dec 02, 2018, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tellurian
Hey HRD
Thanks for the thread. Where did you find this one?
Hi Richard....

Man.... Did we have fun today. The weather wasn't that good, but it was so much fun.
I'm so glad I didn't maiden it myself. You may think otherwise, but we've got an extreme good pilot at our club, but he did really have a hard time keeping it in the air. This was due to the variable CoG and the rocket far in the rear is to blame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tellurian
I have 2 others one from http://www.cloudmodels.com/komet.html and the Durafly from HK. The Cloud models Komit has a styrene body that went brittle and after a bad test throw and is in need of Dr. Frankenstein's help. It too needed much weight in the nose so being a smart ass thought a motor of appropriate weight would be better than the chunk of lead that was cast to replace the original nose cone and also fitted it with a 24mm rocket motor mount. When I saw the Durafly which came with provision for an electric and a rocket motor [cheap long kit] I snatched it up but have not got it in the air except for a few test throws.

Both planes are very fussy about CG. They are also unforgiving at low speed and very touchy at high unless you use low rates.[/SIZE]
Please keep up the posts as you progress on this. I love rockets with wings, dunno why just do.

Richard
I will come back with much more info.
Here are some vids

https://photos.app.goo.gl/v1etoJNxrKGzGbAU9
Dec 02, 2018, 06:09 PM
Registered User
WOW I'm surprised he did as well as he did off the launch. I probably would have lost it on a couple of those launches.


What you may want to do is set up a launch preset like the DLG guys do on a momentary switch just for the launch. Heavy on the rates and expo with a little less reflex in the elevons. He was not bad once he had control and orientation but still twitchy so more expo and rates for normal glide.


CoG is very important on any flying wing but more so on this one because the CoG shifts as the motor burns. With a loaded unburnt motor it should have the CoG at the back of its range and should be balanced just on the edge of stablity. You may have had it too far back which will always cause the sky writing observed off the launch. Any rocket with too aft a CoG will do the same. It has to be far enough back that as the propellant burns off and the CoG moves forward it will still be in trim for glide but not so far back that its unstable. Its a bit of a trick but doable.


Good on the vids do more, thanks.




Richard
Dec 03, 2018, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tellurian
WOW I'm surprised he did as well as he did off the launch. I probably would have lost it on a couple of those launches.
Hi Richard,

You're right and I was already planning some automated sequence that is triggered by the first Vspd getting above 3 m/s.
From the moment it is triggered it will wait another 5 seconds and start gliding mode which will move the elevons up to compensate the nose heavy plane it just became after the rocket is burned.out can then be flown with trims at neutral.

I have designed my own launch sequences for DLG, but the big difference there is that you can use a physical switch to trigger it. Here you don't know when the motor starts. The most important thing is that it's stable at launch.


In my efforts to keep it as light as possible I didn't have the CoG spot on. It ended up slightly trail heavy according the plan. I thought the pilot's skill would compensate for that. In a sense I was right, but next week it will be flown with some additional weight in the nose and I will be researching if I can move the rocket some 2 or 3 mm more forward. All little bits help.
Dec 03, 2018, 12:28 PM
Registered User
HRD,

Yes I noticed the light it and run launch sequence in the vids. Here thats illegal, they must be ignited electrically, but thats not your problem.

However I don't see an issue with holding a button down till it launches and then till burn out. Its not going to do anything and neither are you till burnout. I suppose I see the auto sequence as complicated and fraught with failure points. Maybe I'm just too lazy to complete my education in programming OTx. Its only been 3-4 years.

If you do can you post a copy?

Richard
Dec 03, 2018, 04:53 PM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tellurian
HRD,

Yes I noticed the light it and run launch sequence in the vids. Here thats illegal, they must be ignited electrically, but thats not your problem.
The fuse is long and I only wanted to move away from the camera as quickly as possible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tellurian
If you do can you post a copy?
Richard

I posted a preliminary setup here: messerschmitt-163-rocket-glider
It has never flown with this setup.
It is derived of the setup I had yesterday.
Dec 05, 2018, 10:44 AM
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Thread OP
For those that just want to glance the setup and don't want to bother loading the setup I'm posting here the text setup:

Timers
Tmr1:Gld 00:00:00 L08 Silent No Flight
Tmr2:Flt 00:00:00 L07 Silent No Flight
Tmr3:FM1 00:00:00 FM1 Silent No Flight
Flight modes
FM0:Normal
FM1:Glide L05 FM0+0 FM0+0
FM2:Lnc L03 FM0
GVARS
GV1 Dif 20
GV2 Rat 100
GV3 CoG 10
Inputs
I1:Ail Ail Weight(+GV2:Rat) Expo(50%)
I2:Ele Ele Weight(+GV2:Rat) Expo(50%)
Mixers
CH1:R
+= I1:Ail Weight(+50%) Diff(GV1;Dif) [Roll]
+= I2:Ele Weight(-60%) [Pitch]
+= MAX Weight(+GV3:CoG) Flight mode(FM1:Glide) Slow(u1:d0) [CoG]
CH2:L
+= I1:Ail Weight(-50%) Diff(GV1;Dif) [Roll]
+= I2:Ele Weight(-60%) [Pitch]
+= MAX Weight(+GV3:CoG) Flight mode(FM1:Glide) Slow(u1:d0) [CoG]
Logical Switches
L1 TELE1:VSpd > 1
L2 ( L01 OR Act↓ ) AND !L07
L3 Sticky(L02, L04)
L4 L03 AND ---- Delay(5.5s)
L5 Sticky(L04, L06)
L6 Timer3 > 40
L7 Sticky(L03, !FM1)
L8 Sticky(FM1, L11)
L10 Edge(L03, [0:instant])
L11 !FM1 OR L12
L12 ( TELE2:Alt < 5 ) AND L13 Delay(1s)
L13 ( |TELE1:VSpd| < 0.1 ) AND FM1 Delay(1s)
L15 ( |TELE1:VSpd| < 0.1 ) AND L16 Delay(2s)
L16 ( |TELE2:Alt| > 1 ) AND FM0 Delay(1s)
L22 Telemetry AND ---- Delay(2s)
L23 TELE5:RxBt < 3.7 Delay(5s)
L24 |d(GV2:Rat)| > 2 Duration(0.8s)
Special Functions
SF1 L01 - SD Logs (0.1s)
SF2 L15 - Reset (TELE2:Alt)
SF3 L10 - Reset (Timer1)
SF4 L10 - Reset (Timer2)
SF5 L10 - Reset (Timer3)
SF6 FM1 - Adjust GV2:Rat (Value 100)
SF7 !FM1 - Adjust GV2:Rat (Value 80)
SF9 FM1 - Play Track (fm-1)
SF10 FM2 - Play Track (lnch)
SF12 L22 - SD Logs (0.1s)
SF14 L23 - Play Value (TELE5:RxBt) repeat(15s)
SF15 L24 - Play Track (rate) played once, not during startup
SF16 L24 - Play Value (GV2:Rat) played once, not during startup
SF17 L24 - Play Track (percnt) played once, not during startup
Last edited by hisroyaldudeness; Dec 05, 2018 at 10:55 AM.
Dec 08, 2018, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tellurian
Yes I noticed the light it and run launch sequence in the vids. Here thats illegal, they must be ignited electrically, but thats not your problem.
There are also electrically ignited ones. And you would need this switch too.


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