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Feb 03, 2019, 04:20 PM
Thank you, Stuart A. Now I'll have to look up the AntiArf build log for the Handley Page HP-115. A nice subject for a micro EDF.


Found it:

Wish I could build like that.
Last edited by hdowding; Feb 03, 2019 at 04:28 PM.
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Feb 03, 2019, 07:21 PM
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I built a true scale HP 115 in 2 mm Depron although no undercarriage as I fly from a rough grass field.
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640 mm span 1750 mm long with a true scale wing section.
Very light with a 55 mm EDF on a 1800 mAh 3s it flies very well with an easy hand launch and a ridiculous 'flop' landing if you get it right!
A "Flop" Landing (0 min 40 sec)

It even exhibits the infamous wing wobble at extreme alpha that really worried the test pilots when it first happened.
HP115 wing rock (1 min 34 sec)

As the video shows the wobble is so strong it even swamps its gyro stabiliser!

Interesting side note.
As the most extreme delta in the world at the time Neil Armstrong before his flight to the moon asked if he could fly it (test pilots love to get unique types in their log books) but not surprisingly NASA said no. A couple of years and no longer an astronaut he asked again and permission was granted so he did!
Feb 03, 2019, 11:46 PM
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AntiArf's Avatar
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I've been sick as hell and if they figure out what's wrong with me and I ever get back to building, I'll continue this as a Victor thread.
Otherwise I'd prefer not to turn it into Quorneng's HP115 thread.
Thank You.

FWIW the fan from my HP115 ended up in this most challenging and successful EDF build:
Yak 32 EDF30 24" span RC (2 min 56 sec)
Last edited by AntiArf; Feb 03, 2019 at 11:55 PM.
Feb 23, 2019, 04:56 AM
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AntiArf's Avatar
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Not great news but finally getting somewhere with the docs. Seems I may have an auto immune disorder. Oh well, been getting a bit done here and there.

The individual vellum paper ducts actually weigh about the same as than the short 0.15" clear plastic exhaust ducts. Also to keep the light weight theme more insets were glued between stringers and sculpted into lightweight hoop formers, to support the light 1/32" sheeting. The nose retract door area was inset planked and sheeted, necessary to complete the closing nose retract gear doors. Not a particularly easy area to frame in. The plug in wings have been temporarily attached, with the outer panels test fitted. The lower balsa main spar will also join in the fuselage center, and against a fuse former. The wing panels will be removed after the main gear retracts and gear doors are finished (next post) and the fuselage will then be sheeted. After completing much of the fuse, the wing panels will be permanently attached and finished. Also noticed that the Victor has a tailwheel on the fuse which has been installed, in the event the aircraft could unintentionally pitch onto the rear fuse.
Feb 23, 2019, 05:29 AM
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The wing leading edge intake openings have 2 layers of wet formed 1/8" balsa that will later be sheeted over with 1/32" balsa. They will provide adequate material for the relatively thick intake opening radius. The 1/32" balsa sheet ducting was fitted using paper templates, shaped to fit. I left out the center sections of the bottom intakes until the intake openings are cut out, so I can get in there and press the front of the intakes tight against the bottom of the inlet areas, while gluing. Also note the blue foam intake fillets between the fans.

The main gear and doors are working reliably, while the wheels do barely touch the doors when opening and closing. They are on the nary edge however, as any added tightening of the opening/closing string can cause jams to occur. I noticed the full scale aircraft has oval shaped covers on the doors that could likely be there to alleviate the same issue by providing additional tire clearance, so I made some from heat formed thin plastic, and can cut away the door center area before gluing them in place. The added clearance should add reliability. There's more to this than meets the eye, as the doors could be made to open/close faster which would increase tire-door clearance, but then the added force required to close the doors begins to over strain the servos which would then buzz. Note the diagram that was made so that the string length with the doors closed, is basically equal or just slightly less to the string length with the doors open. This is needed so that the doors open fully, but do not open much beyond 90 degrees, as they have opening springs which would otherwise cause that to happen. Servo horns with multiple holes provide some fine adjustment to the arrangement. Scuff the nylon plastic horns well with sandpaper, so that they glue well with CA. The door opening/closing strings can be adjusted by slide mechanisms installed on the wing ribs, which use a socket head screw and blind nut. The string adjust slide mechanisms were made from reworked GWS foamie parts tree parts, which have been priceless over the years, also used for the nose gear retract base.

The nose retract and doors are working perfectly. Being the second go at the retract design, and 3rd or 4th on the string closing doors, it was easy this time. The retract rotates further than 90 degrees, which allows for added string pull/leverage, versus using a 90 degree retract. That allows for added string pull distance and closing leverage over the doors, without having the doors clash into the thick dual wheels, as the nose gear retracts deep into the fuselage. With a 90 degree retract, the problem is that the door need to open/close quickly, overloading the retract servo and causing adjustment to be difficult, as the smallest amount of string stretch or mechanical change would cause the doors to not fully close. Ultra light door opening strings are used to open the doors, while the string length and tie off location on the doors was determined so that the doors open parallel to each other. The torsion spring ends were pre-bent and slid over the wooden dowels, after the doors were installed. Not easy to do, but possible. The doors have slots cut and use 0.032" wire for the hinge pins, which are pressed and glued into the slots, and extend beyond the ends of the doors. Aluminum tubing slid over the ends of the 0.032" wires creates the pivot points, which are glued into notches cut into the fuselage bottom. There is a tether string tied to the door closing string, attached inside the fuselage with CA glue to a point slightly above the retracted strut. The closing string can't just be left blowing in the wind, or it will likely hang up on the retract body or possibly get behind the wheels, versus being properly grabbed by the gear strut. Also note the small piece of wood glued to the gear strut, used as a string stop which keeps the string from sliding up the smooth aluminum strut, since the strut retracts beyond 90 degrees and is not parallel to the doors when fully retracted. This ensures that the string stays in the same spot on the strut, each time the gear is retracted and the doors are closed.
Feb 23, 2019, 11:13 AM
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I am glad you are getting better, Sir.

Please, what is the outlet diameter of the ducts?

Thanks, Jan
Feb 23, 2019, 03:13 PM
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Thanks. Unfortunately not getting better, but at least getting some idea of what's been wrong.
The exhaust outlet diameters are 26mm, which is the same diameter used with the fans in my TU104 build and flight.
Feb 25, 2019, 05:44 AM
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balticS2's Avatar
Glad to see you back on this Bill and hope you are feeling better soon.

All that work around the nose is looking very Victor. Interesting too to see what you have done with the gear door operation. I have a model where I am struggling with the doors and that has given me some ideas to look at when I go back to it.

All the best

Feb 25, 2019, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AntiArf
Thanks. Unfortunately not getting better, but at least getting some idea of what's been wrong.
The exhaust outlet diameters are 26mm, which is the same diameter used with the fans in my TU104 build and flight.
My fingers crossed for you, hopefully doctors are on the right track now.

Thanks for the information, and also inspiration, I got a pair of the QX 30 mm fans, now drawing a plan .

Feb 25, 2019, 07:15 PM
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Kevin Cox's Avatar
Impressive build!
Feb 26, 2019, 08:40 AM
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St. Martin's Avatar
Hope the best for you, Bill. I know what is is like to not be able to feel better after months of problems. I think the best thing I did, was when I was staying at my aunts house, we found an old adjustable artist easel. I was able to fit a 20x14" ceiling tile to it and started building rubber kits I had on hand. The first was an old Sterling T-6 18" WS. This got me feeling better mentally.

I came home leaving the framework of a Dave Diels Vindicator on the easel. My aunt and her daughter, want to know when I'm going to feel bad again and finish the plane.(they like having me there) BTW, I lost the T-6 when I put too many winds in it. OOS!

I think this Victor is the best I have seen from you. What a great choice! Stick with it, Bill. An occupied brain seems to be good medicine.

Feb 27, 2019, 07:08 PM
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Thanks for the comments all. Fuzz it certainly is better to keep doing something like building, versus sitting around. Can only watch so many WW2 and other misc You Tube videos. The Victor nose is definitely where a lot of the effort is on this subject Alec, to get it reasonably scale looking. No painted on glass for us! Made a mold and heat pulled the fuselage inlet vents behind the observer's bay from thin sheet plastic heated with a BIC lighter, and have the observer's bay framed for the glass installation. The small CA hardened mold for the vents is in the first photo. The aluminum tube on the nose tip is mounted on a wire, which was inserted into a hole drilled into the fuse tip, and then hit with thin CA. The wire had a short balsa dowel pushed over it, which the alum tube slips over, again hardened with a drop of thin CA after fitting the tube in place over the wire/dowel. Currently sheeting the fuse with 1/32" balsa panels, working my way inward from the front and rear fuselage, getting the difficult panels out of the way. Slightly oversized paper templates were made to cut the rear fuselage balsa sheeting panels from, which are then sanded/fitted to size. The 1/32" sheeting is one of the factors necessary in building easily hand launchable EDFs of this size, although the model does have LG. Fitting the 1/32" balsa sheet panels to seam on the center of 1/16" formers isn't terribly difficult after a bit of practice, and is definitely easier than inset planking, as well as getting compound curves out of the relatively thin sheeting sections. For the compound curved area at the fuse top behind the nose glass, dampening the outer surface of the sheet before gluing in place, and making a small relief cut made at one end of the rectangular sheet sections, helps the sheet form the compound curved shape.
Feb 28, 2019, 04:37 PM
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turbonut's Avatar
Nice work. You have captured the look for sure....Not an easy thing....Get better soon we need more of your small scale inspiration...
Latest blog entry: In flight
Mar 03, 2019, 10:49 PM
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Progress looks super!

Take careó stacker
Mar 06, 2019, 08:18 AM
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Thanks Turbo and Dave. Still dealing with the doctors trying to get treatment, but at least have gotten better on the eating end of things. Was down to 139 lbs a few weeks ago, which I haven't been since something like 6th grade.

Quick mock up photo below with the wings temporarily attached. Installed the tail servos and determined the locations for the battery tray, ESCs, and receiver/switching BEC mounting tray at the fuse bottom, more easily done before the fuse sheeting is finished. The ESCs/rec/switching BEC will be located under the removable battery tray floor, with the ESCs hanging directly below the battery tray. The battery should be centered close to over the CG, which is a good thing. The tail servos will have a separate access door, with a larger door for the battery and gear access.

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