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Sep 17, 2018, 06:22 PM
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Discussion

Constellation Sailplane


Hi All,
I am looking for any information on the Constellation sailplane I don't know if it ever was kitted as such. ( I have this posed under the Sailplane group also, if that is against policy I will delete this one).
It is a 14 foot t-tail sailplane and understand it has a foam sheeted wing. I am especially interested in:

1. The datum line for the fuselage
2. Wing and stab incidence (I will assume it is 0 degrees but would like to know for sure)
3. Tow hook placement (I assume it will be close to the CG)
4 Templates for the tapered outboard section of the wing
5. Any other information you may have on this sailplane, no matter how trivial it may seem
I have searched for previous threads, but come up empty (it's possible I may have missed one). This is a BIG project, so I don't have a start date yet (or end date if it will ever end!!) but would like to have as much info as possible. I do have a fiberglass fuse for it, so some of the build is "started". I am not sure if I will use foam or capped ribs for the wing and will make that decision once I have more info on what is available.Any information would be appreciated and I don't mind paying nominal costs for postage should you be able to send anything. I love large wingspan sailplanes and would like to build this one. I would, of course share the build process here.
Thanks in advance!
Antares100
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Sep 18, 2018, 12:53 AM
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tkallev's Avatar
The original was designed by Dale Folkening of the SOAR club and glass fuses were available from Bob Sealy. I have one that used a foam Eppler 193 airfoil, I think Dale's used an Eppler 205 at the time.
Sep 18, 2018, 09:04 AM
Play loud, Fly high
Gil Gauger's Avatar

Constellation


Bob Sealy actually kitted this plane with (not pre) sheeted foam wings utilizing the Selig 4063 airfoil. Polyhedrel REF. Horizontal stab is full flying so decalage angle is moot. I have no plans but I do have a plane. If you get no other responses please pm me and I will measure mine and tell you anything I can.
Oct 14, 2018, 09:44 PM
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Thread OP
I may attempt to use foam for the wing but not sure how to cut the outboard section as it is tapered. When starting the cut, the wire will be touching the leading edge tapered to the tip. Should I keep the same angle (the wire will be slightly canted as I make the cut) as I cut through the foam or keep the wire parallel to the trailing edge as I start the cut?
Oct 18, 2018, 10:50 AM
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Gratter's Avatar
Way back when a buddy and I use to cut foam wings together. We did not have one of the automated pulling systems so we would mark the templates with different points such as 1/4 front leading edge , 1/2, 3/4,etc. The more points the better. Each point spacing would depend on the size of the airfoil. So if one foil was 12 inch it was marked at 3,6,9.etc. The other temp might be 10" so it is marked 2.5,5,7.5, etc.
We each took a side and the guy on the long foil side would be the "caller"
As we advanced the bow the caller would say what point he was at and the other one either speed up or slowed down to try and a stay as close to the proper position as possible.
Took some practice but we usually got some pretty nice foils.
Since we were just doing a few wings it worked for us.
Hope this made sense.
Oct 19, 2018, 07:02 PM
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Thread OP

Cutting the foam wing sections


Hi, and thanks for joining the thread and for the information. Just a question, when you were cutting, did you keep the bow perpendicular to the root of the airfoil, or were you parallel with the slope of the outboard section?
Oct 19, 2018, 09:28 PM
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Gratter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares100
Hi, and thanks for joining the thread and for the information. Just a question, when you were cutting, did you keep the bow perpendicular to the root of the airfoil, or were you parallel with the slope of the outboard section?
Not sure if I understand the question but we would start at the LE of the wing and work back to the TE. With a taper each side has to move at different speeds so you are at the same point on the airfoil . That is why we called out the markings we made. So the person on the other end knew if he had to speed up or slow down so we ended up exiting the TE at the same time.
Oct 20, 2018, 02:46 AM
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tkallev's Avatar
Here, review this (with videos): https://www.flitetest.com/articles/h...-template-tips

Let me say this ... if your basic modeling skills are not up to the task of building a large XC ship, maybe you need to start with something a little less intimidating ...
Last edited by tkallev; Oct 20, 2018 at 02:49 AM. Reason: Better URL
Oct 20, 2018, 08:10 PM
Master of the Wind
G Norsworthy's Avatar
After 12 XC models I would say you would gain a lot by finding another modeler in your area who has experience in the methods. It will short cut a huge amount of time off your learning curve.

Also based on experience I would go with at minimum sheeted white foam wings with a spar. A plane that big with ribs and cap strips is asking to blow apart the first time you overspeed it.

If anyone is still cutting cores for hire that is one route to go that is particularly good for large cores. The large ones are difficult if you try to cut the whole panel in one piece because of wire sag. CNC cores are worth it and will not have this problem. If you try to cut them yourself consider breaking the panel up into smaller pieces and make the wire as tight as possible.

Constellation is a very sweet flying plane for relaxing long flights. The ones I saw were S4061 airfoil and if someone can measure the planform that is really all you need to build it.

If you have some time to burn, have a look at my XC build threads. There is a lot in there pertaining to building large sailplanes and some of them are not far off what you are trying to do. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Oct 22, 2018, 10:30 PM
Registered User
Hi Greg, glad you are still Lurking. Flying any X/C?

JDK
Oct 22, 2018, 11:33 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Hi and thanks for responding. The construction is not a problem for me, I have a fiberglass fuse and have built sailplanes before (as well as powered planes). But yes it will defanitely be a learning experience!!
The problem I see is how to cut the foam for the outboard panels as the leading edge is tapered back a bit (not a constant chord). I would think the outboard edge of the bow would be lowered a bit to while cutting. The plan I have shows the chord of the inboard panel 11.5 inches and the tip chord 8.63 inches long. The length of each panel (2- inboard and 2- outboard tapered panels).
I'm building a 4- foot bow for what I am assuming is a 14- foot wing.( I hate assuming).
Again, thanks for your input and hope I explained my question well. ( I will be checking out your threads, GNorsworthy!)
Oct 23, 2018, 08:59 AM
Master of the Wind
G Norsworthy's Avatar
I have plans to fly XC again.

For this project I would recommend two modifications to your ideas. If you want to cut your own cores I recommend that you invest in either a Feathercut if you can find one or build your own drop bow for the taper. It’s not that hard to make and it will save a lot of trouble. There may still be plans out there or I can arrange to get some pics taken of the one we used.
Oct 23, 2018, 11:28 AM
Master of the Wind
G Norsworthy's Avatar
The second thing I would do is break the 4 ft panels into two 2 ft panels and glue them together after you cut them. You have one airfoil for the whole span so you don’t need to blend which is the hardest part. I would also try to obtain templates from someone who has a CNC. This will save you a lot of time and be more accurate.
Oct 23, 2018, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Norsworthy
I have plans to fly XC again.
Greg, thats good to hear!

John
Oct 23, 2018, 10:35 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
That was my question, guess I didn't explain particularly well. At the tip section, the airfoil is the same, but with a tapered leading edge, how do you work the bow as you are cutting? Parallel to the leading edge, or perpendicular to the fuse and center sections?
Just for the heck of it, I tried calling the mfgr of the feathercut, but looks like they are part-time. I left a messge, lol.
Last edited by Antares100; Oct 24, 2018 at 11:02 AM.


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