Thread Tools
Aug 23, 2018, 10:46 PM
Registered User
thumbs1's Avatar
There are probably hundreds of good trainers. Everyone has their personal favorite. For me it is the scratch built STC. What a great airplane. And I still haven't crashed it. Not to say since the STC I haven't spent hours and hours and hours................at the bench putting other planes back together. I think the reason it never crashed was of course luck followed but a ton of time on a free flight simulator and the fact that I wasn't trying to do stupid stuff. LOL The simulator is the key. Get to the point where you can do stupid stuff on the sim drinking a cup of coffee and your ready to try the real thing.

Probably 30 years ago I got into the hobby. Of course no simulators then. Of course no money either. I built a Falcon 56 fuel. Stick built. Long story took it to the field and crashed a few times with little to no damage. When I got er in the air, with no exp at all, lost orientation an never saw the plane again. I quit the hobby for 20 years. Got the itch again found a flight sim and never looked back. We all crash. You have hear the expression, build, fly, crash,repair and repeat. LOL Get a sim you'll do fine.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Aug 23, 2018, 10:58 PM
Sokol
JureZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoamForce


... it felt like the plane was flying itself. I was only gently coaxing it into doing what it wanted to do.

I finally understood the addiction of RC flying! I did some slow landings with the power off, and even managed to pull off some acro with a few loops.
.... At least it worked beautifully while it worked!


I've never been able to replicate those flights. ...

If it wasn't for those few perfect flights I would chalk it up to either a bad design, bad building techniques or bad pilot skills, but it did fly once.
...
Any advice as to what i could be doing wrong or suggestions on better first airplanes to try would be appreciated.

my thinking is that you did not follow intentionally the designed location of the Center of Gravity.
By chance you had it, but did not know about it.
Check the center of gravity, and make sure it balances where it is designed, move the battery around or even ad weight as needed.


then try un-powered glide tests, trimming the elevator and rudder so that the model glides straight and level, (without pitching up and stalling, or diving into the ground ).


Having an expert pilot next to you to guide with the original set up is very , very , helpful and recommended !

good luck !
Aug 26, 2018, 05:08 PM
ski bum
I see the EzFly recommended frequently as a beginning plane. My problem is, What is an EzFly?

My very first impression was that it was an indoor-only plane, because that's how it's first presented and where it's first shown flying. I wasn't looking for an indoor plane. So I originally discarded the whole idea.

Some months later it's recommended to me again. So I take a second look. Can't figure out if its wing is undercambered or KFm. If the former (which is my preference) I don't see anywhere that its attachment to the fuselage is documented. Studying a few pictures hasn't helped much. Do the plans on the first post of the EzFly build thread even have anything to do with later planes bearing the same name?

Third vexing factor: What is it made of? There seems to be no consensus. Do I build it out of whatever I feel like and then see if it flies? If it doesn't, is it the plane or the inexperienced pilot?

Anyway, I'm not trying to criticize anyone or anything. Would love to built and fly an EzFly. But I don't know where to begin. Certain other planes have proven easier for me to grasp, so I've built and flown them even if they are probably more complicated.
Last edited by K2XR10; Aug 26, 2018 at 05:18 PM.
Aug 26, 2018, 05:53 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2XR10
I see the EzFly recommended frequently as a beginning plane. My problem is, What is an EzFly?

My very first impression was that it was an indoor-only plane, because that's how it's first presented and where it's first shown flying. I wasn't looking for an indoor plane. So I originally discarded the whole idea.

Some months later it's recommended to me again. So I take a second look. Can't figure out if its wing is undercambered or KFm. If the former (which is my preference) I don't see anywhere that its attachment to the fuselage is documented. Studying a few pictures hasn't helped much. Do the plans on the first post of the EzFly build thread even have anything to do with later planes bearing the same name?

Third vexing factor: What is it made of? There seems to be no consensus. Do I build it out of whatever I feel like and then see if it flies? If it doesn't, is it the plane or the inexperienced pilot?

Anyway, I'm not trying to criticize anyone or anything. Would love to built and fly an EzFly. But I don't know where to begin. Certain other planes have proven easier for me to grasp, so I've built and flown them even if they are probably more complicated.
In the first post of the EzFly thread , Motorhead (Mike Bailey , the designer of the EzFly) explains that he made the very first EzFly for his young daughter ..... so he made it look like a dragon for her . The dragon EzFly is what you see in that first post video . The EzFly then evolved into the more up-to-date familiar looking plane you see today . The plans for the up-to-date EzFly are the "EzFly R3 Drawing" PDF file in the first post .
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...-trainer-plane

I have built dozens of EzFlys out of different materials , I'll be glad to help you build one . Or you can get the EzFly kit from Mike Bailey's company : Fancy Foam . The kit is very tough EPP foam , and includes hardware such as a wing spar , pushrods , control horns , motor mount , etc .
http://fancyfoam-com.3dcartstores.co...Kit_p_105.html the kit is $35 if you select white ( unpainted ) .
Aug 27, 2018, 12:12 AM
ski bum
Thank you. Very informative! So the original EzFly had a flat wing (with dihedral) made out of EPP. KFm step was added later. And you experimented with undercambered wings and also with DTFB with the paper removed

Perhaps someone in the past made an EzFly with flat wing out of DTFB, with the paper on? It would be heaver and not as robust, but it would be cheap and replaceable. Unless it's already known to be a disaster, that's the sort of direction my wallet would like to take.
Aug 27, 2018, 01:40 AM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2XR10
Thank you. Very informative! So the original EzFly had a flat wing (with dihedral) made out of EPP. KFm step was added later. And you experimented with undercambered wings and also with DTFB with the paper removed

Perhaps someone in the past made an EzFly with flat wing out of DTFB, with the paper on? It would be heaver and not as robust, but it would be cheap and replaceable. Unless it's already known to be a disaster, that's the sort of direction my wallet would like to take.
I have made EzFlys out of DTFB with the paper skins left on , and they fly just fine until the paper skins get wet . The biggest problem with the paper skins is that they absorb moisture from wet grass or even from the air on a humid day . After the paper skins have absorbed moisture : they may delaminate from the foam core , and will also warp the DTFB when drying . If building an EzFly out of DTFB , I recommend taking the paper skins off .

So we're not hijacking this thread , do you want to start your own thread about building an EzFly ?
Aug 27, 2018, 08:23 AM
Sokol
JureZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2XR10
Thank you. Very informative! So the original EzFly had a flat wing (with dihedral) made out of EPP. KFm step was added later. And you experimented with undercambered wings and also with DTFB with the paper removed

Perhaps someone in the past made an EzFly with flat wing out of DTFB, with the paper on? It would be heaver and not as robust, but it would be cheap and replaceable. Unless it's already known to be a disaster, that's the sort of direction my wallet would like to take.
I built a variation of the EzFly for my friend , using dollar tree foamboard (rediboard) with the paper removed. Also, did not use KFM, just two layers of DTFoam. The wingspan is slightly larger, as I wanted to have the maximum wingspan allowed by the DT Foam material.

It flies perfectly in windy conditions up to 8 mph , based on the motor and prop that we use , it will fly against the headwind, albeit slowly.

here is a link to my blog page
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...lying-squirrel
Last edited by JureZ; Aug 27, 2018 at 10:13 AM.
Aug 27, 2018, 12:17 PM
Registered User
Bixler 2 is all you need.

This plane w no landing gear will actually teach you how to land. It self levels, push prop, tons of forum support, strong plane in high winds.

Can do all kinds of aerobatics, inverted flying and fpv canopy design. Small motors for lots of stick time and teaches to fly w the wind.

Its cool the build process, many times on FT all is nice and goes perfect but its not true when a kit arrives.

I bought a while back a Valuehobby kit, that thing never flew, threw it in the dumpster and I was already flying balsa glow planes, so it was not me.

I stay away from all those fancy FT kits.
Aug 27, 2018, 02:38 PM
ski bum
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon
So we're not hijacking this thread , do you want to start your own thread about building an EzFly ?
Definitely don't want to hijack FoamForce's thread. In fact I really love his title: First time RC pilot here. Tired of the CRASHING! That's what brought me here.

This is very relatable, and I hope I'm staying on topic. Forums vary somewhat on what is acceptable, and what would constitute hijacking. If I've done FoamForce a disservice, I apologize!

The two obvious solutions to me would be: 1) pick a plane that can tolerate huge abuse and still bounce back. 2) pick a plane that is so dead-easy to fly that it wouldn't do a lot of crashing, even in the hands of a noob. (I know that neither of these directly address FoamForce's situation with the variability of his plane. On that particular point I'm clueless.)

The Bixler 2 suggestion leans especially toward #2. An EPP version of the EzFly leans more toward #1. But they both have elements of each.

The JureZ version of the EzFly is impressive because, near as can be seen on his blog page, the wing has no spar. Looks like two sheets of DTFoam w/o paper are stiff enough for the gentle flying it's made for. Otoh, there seems to be leading and trailing edge dowels. I may strike a compromise - use two sheets but strip off the inside layer of both pieces. All that paper at the neutral axis is a waste. But the outside layers of paper combined with the double thickness may actually deliver enough stiffness. After sanding the edges I'll smear on a little Gorilla glue to somewhat bond the paper edges to the foam edges. Might help prevent delamination. Also, it's pretty dry in the Great Basin. Not at all like Portland, or even Walnut Creek.

Anyway, I'll get out of the way. Got an unlimited supply of foam and glue, and hundreds of bamboo skewers. I'll see what sort of EzFly wing they can make. If that's a disaster, I may give up and go with a Bixler 2.
Last edited by K2XR10; Aug 27, 2018 at 02:49 PM.
Aug 27, 2018, 02:47 PM
Sokol
JureZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2XR10
Definitely don't want to hijack FoamForce's thread. In fact I really love his title: First time RC pilot here. Tired of the CRASHING! That's what brought me here.

The JureZ version of the EzFly is impressive because, near as can be seen on his blog page, the wing has no spar. Looks like two sheets of DTFoam w/o paper are stiff enough for the gentle flying it's made for. Otoh, there seems to be leading and trailing edge dowels.

Anyway, I'll get out of the way. Got an unlimited supply of foam and glue, and hundreds of bamboo skewers. I'll see what sort of EzFly wing they can make. If that's a disaster, I may give up and go with a Bixler 2.
Our implementation has spars , bamboo skewers , at the leading edge and in the front side of the propeller slot.
Last edited by JureZ; Aug 27, 2018 at 03:35 PM.
Aug 27, 2018, 04:06 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2XR10
Definitely don't want to hijack FoamForce's thread. In fact I really love his title: First time RC pilot here. Tired of the CRASHING! That's what brought me here.

This is very relatable, and I hope I'm staying on topic. Forums vary somewhat on what is acceptable, and what would constitute hijacking. If I've done FoamForce a disservice, I apologize!

The two obvious solutions to me would be: 1) pick a plane that can tolerate huge abuse and still bounce back. 2) pick a plane that is so dead-easy to fly that it wouldn't do a lot of crashing, even in the hands of a noob. (I know that neither of these directly address FoamForce's situation with the variability of his plane. On that particular point I'm clueless.).
For most unassisted beginners , a 3 channel RET ( Rudder , Elevator , Throttle ) EzFly will be much easier to fly than a 4 channel RETA ( Rudder , Elevator , Throttle , Aileron ) Bixler . Also , the minimum stall speed ( the slowest speed a plane is able to fly ) of a Bixler is much faster than the minimum stall speed of an EzFly . See my video in post #2 .

The Bixler 2 suggestion leans especially toward #2. An EPP version of the EzFly leans more toward #1. But they both have elements of each.

The JureZ version of the EzFly is impressive because, near as can be seen on his blog page, the wing has no spar. Looks like two sheets of DTFoam w/o paper are stiff enough for the gentle flying it's made for. Otoh, there seems to be leading and trailing edge dowels. I may strike a compromise - use two sheets but strip off the inside layer of both pieces. All that paper at the neutral axis is a waste. But the outside layers of paper combined with the double thickness may actually deliver enough stiffness. After sanding the edges I'll smear on a little Gorilla glue to somewhat bond the paper edges to the foam edges. Might help prevent delamination. Also, it's pretty dry in the Great Basin. Not at all like Portland, or even Walnut Creek. If making an EzFly out of DTFB with the paper left on , it's best ( opinion based on my experience ) to make the entire plane out of a single layer of DTFB , except for the nose is triple layer & the leading edge of the wing is a double layer KFm ...... just like the plans indicate .

Anyway, I'll get out of the way. Got an unlimited supply of foam and glue, and hundreds of bamboo skewers. I'll see what sort of EzFly wing they can make. If that's a disaster, I may give up and go with a Bixler 2.
Hope this ↑ helps .
Aug 28, 2018, 10:56 AM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2XR10
I may strike a compromise - use two sheets but strip off the inside layer of both pieces. All that paper at the neutral axis is a waste. But the outside layers of paper combined with the double thickness may actually deliver enough stiffness. After sanding the edges I'll smear on a little Gorilla glue to somewhat bond the paper edges to the foam edges. Might help prevent delamination.

Got an unlimited supply of foam and glue, and hundreds of bamboo skewers. I'll see what sort of EzFly wing they can make. If that's a disaster, I may give up and go with a Bixler 2.
If you would like a DTFB EzFly that flies like the one in post #2 , I can help you . If you follow my advice , it won't be a disaster .

Here is another video of a DTFB EzFly :



Slow flying lightweight EZfly RC plane (2 min 45 sec)
Last edited by balsa or carbon; Aug 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM.
Aug 28, 2018, 05:15 PM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Despite who has the best trainer or not , It will still crash , a simulator will not … I just wish there were simulators when we learned to fly … Would have saved a LOT of Time and Balsa !!! Once you can comfortably fly on a simulator , you’re well on your way to surviving your first actual flights , and that’s a Great feeling , a successful maiden … or SOLO !!!

Ps. A good friend of mine recently wanted to learn to fly , and so I put him on to FMS , using my old controller , and he’s doing great , three weeks and he’s confident for the real thing …
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Aug 28, 2018, 05:35 PM
Sokol
JureZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Despite who has the best trainer or not , It will still crash , a simulator will not … I just wish there were simulators when we learned to fly … Would have saved a LOT of Time and Balsa !!! Once you can comfortably fly on a simulator , you’re well on your way to surviving your first actual flights , and that’s a Great feeling , a successful maiden … or SOLO !!!

Ps. A good friend of mine recently wanted to learn to fly , and so I put him on to FMS , using my old controller , and he’s doing great , three weeks and he’s confident for the real thing …



+++ to your statements GPW !
Aug 28, 2018, 05:44 PM
Build straight - Fly twisty
Whiskers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Despite who has the best trainer or not , It will still crash , a simulator will not … I just wish there were simulators when we learned to fly … Would have saved a LOT of Time and Balsa !!! Once you can comfortably fly on a simulator , you’re well on your way to surviving your first actual flights , and that’s a Great feeling , a successful maiden … or SOLO !!!

Ps. A good friend of mine recently wanted to learn to fly , and so I put him on to FMS , using my old controller , and he’s doing great , three weeks and he’s confident for the real thing …
I agree 110%
And the thing is that flying the real thing is actually easier than the sim. This is because in real life we have stereo vision and a much wider field of view.
As a result, when you are good on the sim the real thing becomes very doable.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Video How does a full scale pilot do first time on RC - video Garyss Electric Plane Talk 10 Jul 02, 2018 12:52 PM
Discussion First live flight. First time live pilot. GS AutoTech Beginner Multirotor Drones 9 Jan 23, 2018 02:17 PM
Video How does a full scale pilot do first time on RC Garyss Fuel Plane Talk 10 Aug 20, 2017 04:55 PM