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Jul 27, 2018, 05:44 AM
'Douglas' to his friends.
Thread OP
Build Log

OZNoP 2018, 1935 Curtiss Condor ...


The starting point of yet another adventure. Here's a thumbnail of the plans I've received...



The original plan, from 1935, appears to be either for static display, or a 'chuck' glider, as there is no mention of power at all, and (obviously...) no radio. The plans are for 1/48th scale, but this is too small for my clumsy fingers, so I've had 'em 'blown up' 200%, so 1/24th, which gives a span of 1m22 (that's 48" in old money...). The control surfaces are, however, marked out on the plan, and even mobile, with bent pins..! It's a bi-motor, which will bring its own challenges when I try to fit a pair of small electric motors in the cowlings. I'll probably settle for Rudder, Elevator, Throttle for RC. Here's a picture of what the result should resemble...



Progress will be slow, so be patient, please.
To be continued...
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Jul 27, 2018, 06:26 AM
Blueplaidcanard flyer
A pair of 370 super tiger motors should work,but a pair of E flite park 400 size will spark it up nicely.
Jul 27, 2018, 06:39 AM
'Douglas' to his friends.
Thread OP
Cheers; thanks for the tip. It's early daze yet, but I'll be looking hard at all the options as I go forward, so duly noted.
Jul 27, 2018, 06:41 AM
So I'M meant to be in control?
Colonel Blink's Avatar
Ah - so summat simple for your second build then, eh Douglas?

Blimmin 'eck, you aren't afeared of a challenge are you?
Jul 27, 2018, 06:56 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
Not to start off in a negative vein Douglas; with electric twins are no harder than singles BUT I do have to say, unless you are planning on introducing some seriously non-scale dihedral (like something in the region of 3 inches under each tip) I really DO think you will need ailerons on this one,
Jul 27, 2018, 08:00 AM
'Douglas' to his friends.
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Blink
Ah - so summat simple for your second build then, eh Douglas?

Blimmin 'eck, you aren't afeared of a challenge are you?
But Shirley that's the whole idea, no..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer
Not to start off in a negative vein Douglas; with electric twins are no harder than singles BUT I do have to say, unless you are planning on introducing some seriously non-scale dihedral (like something in the region of 3 inches under each tip) I really DO think you will need ailerons on this one,
Duly noted, cap'n, and thanks. Maybe (just 'maybe'...) I'll have learned to fly with ailerons by the time this ship is ready to sail (into the skies; maybe the cornfield..! ). Ailerons are on the plan, so it'll be looked at, hard.
And 'No, that's not a negative vein at all; quite the opposite..!'
Jul 27, 2018, 09:17 AM
Registered User
owlsabie's Avatar
Ailerons really aren't difficult to fly with, ts using ailerons and rudder that requires a fine touch. But I suspect that very few people bother...
Jul 27, 2018, 09:31 AM
Registered User
rchopper56's Avatar
I'm walking away from this one.
You will not need any control surfaces if you can install differential motor control.

Forgot, you will need more incidence between the wing and tail if differential motor is used - model is now like rudder only. That's how my late son learned to fly.
Last edited by rchopper56; Jul 27, 2018 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Added incidence comment.
Jul 27, 2018, 09:35 AM
'Douglas' to his friends.
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by rchopper56
I'm walking away from this one.


But seriously... No, no; all input is valuable.
Jul 27, 2018, 11:05 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Dad, if you want to keep the dihedral to scale you WILL need ailerons. But if you mix the aileron channel with the rudder and use just a small amount of travel in the ailerons the net effect is that the model will handle just like a rudder with dihedral model. The only difference is that you'll need to level the wings as it won't level itself.

Mind you with the modern rigs with stability modes this too could be used and the model WOULD self level the wings just as if it had dihedral.

The key is to not use a lot of aileron travel. On something like this I'd set up the ailerons with some differential and for how you would like them to "feel" I'd opt for around 7 up and around 3 to 4 downward travel. And that's not much at all.

You really should build up a simple aileron trainer model for yourself. And start with minimal control throws. That's the only real help you'll need. I think you'd be surprised that you are worried about nothing much at all. The only big difference is becoming used to using a different thumb for ground steering and takeoff direction corrections.

Anywho..... You're on the Builder's List in the Coveted First Place slot.
Jul 27, 2018, 11:38 AM
'Douglas' to his friends.
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMatthews
...Anywho..... You're on the Builder's List in the Coveted First Place slot.
Thanks, Bruce (Coveted..? By whom, pray..? ). The aileron advice is gratefully received, especially the numbers, which are often my sticking point, having little experience.
I do have a Svenson Prima, built expressly for learning 3-axis flying, but it's not yet been 'maidened', as I've been too busy with bloomin' Build Challenges... (No, scrap that..! ) It's a combination of bad weather and worse health. Soon, though; very soon. Meanwhile, I'm getting very slowly better with my Clearview RC simulator. I crash, now, only nine times out of ten.
Jul 27, 2018, 12:22 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Quote:
(Coveted..? By whom, pray..?)
Well... by the person in SECOND place silly!

I don't do the RC sims at all other than the odd time when they are on display at some show or shop. But can you go into the options and reduce the "throw" on the "model"?

The figures I offered would be too little for a proper 3 axis model. They are intended to be set that small to use in connection with a mixed in rudder to provide a substitute for little or no dihedral. If you opt to fly the Prima as your aileron trainer you'll want somewhat more angle. Like 12 to 15 each side of neutral.

What would be a fine idea too is to go for more like plus and minus 20 and then set the dual rate switches to reduce that to plus/minus around 10. That'll soften things down for your first trials and get comfy flights. But pretty soon you'll come to realize that it's not that bad and will likely find that something like plus/minus 15 to 20 is just fine for pottering around while still giving you some ability to do a bit of a panic recovery if a gust tips the wing up just before touchdown.

Keep in mind too that flight controls are VERY much influenced by the flying speed. Those flat foamy flippy flyers with the 45 of throw are actually not that hard to control in a smooth easy to fly manner when they are flying close to the stall speed. But get up much over a fast running pace as performed by some teen and they become VERY nervous to stick inputs in a hurry. So it is "real" technique to match the aileron and elevator throw to the expected flying speed range.
Jul 27, 2018, 03:03 PM
'Douglas' to his friends.
Thread OP
All Good Stuff, Bruce; much appreciated. As for speed... The slower the better, as far as I'm concerned. Even a tethered balloon would test my reaction times, currently..! Yes, with the simulator, I've worked out how to reduce the throws (that's how I managed to get down safely at all for the first time a few days ago..!). The version I have is run from my own Turnigy Tx, with my own Rx, and so obeys Tx set-up such as dual rates 'n all. It's getting (slightly...) better. The real test is in the field, though, and the 'planes have firstly to be made flyable..!
Jul 29, 2018, 03:59 PM
Blueplaidcanard flyer
Ailerons on this ship would not be a bad idea.Once you can use ailerons it gets easy,you will wonder how you got on without them.That being said it took me some time to get used to them as I grew up in the days of single channel flying,when an escapement and a bang bang rudder was what we had.A kick up elevator was new back in the day and the linkage was a fright.Still some of us got through and moved on.Take some time and build a simple aileron/elevator plane and learn how to fly it.A simple stick plane with a near flat wing is a good start.
Jul 29, 2018, 04:28 PM
'Douglas' to his friends.
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidrue1
...Take some time and build a simple aileron/elevator plane and learn how to fly it.A simple stick plane with a near flat wing is a good start.
Thanks; yes this has been suggested to me by several folks, now. In fact, I built my Svenson Prima for exactly that purpose, but it failed, once again, to get its maiden flight yesterday. I now know why it wouldn't start (the YEP 30A ESC had reverted to its default set-up of 3c, Heli Mode, and the 4c Lipo didn't please it, so we only got error beeps. I cleared it all up once back home, but I still don't know why or how the ESC set-up got changed. Another go, possibly, next week-end. (It's maybe for the best, as my video camera battery was flat, anyway, so I'd have missed out on the maiden video..!).
I've also had suggested building a simple 3-piece Depron 'stick' plane out of a few rectangles, just for learning, but I've no sheet for that, and have never used the stuff before. I might be tempted to cobble something up at the club, if there's someone there that knows how to do such a trainer.
I looked over the Condor plans again this evening, and will have to clear the decks for laying out the fuselage internal 'box' structure. My Flamingo rudder trials are over, but I have yet to build the set-up into her. I'll do that first, then lay out some sticks...


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