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Jun 11, 2018, 05:03 AM
Registered User
PaulB's Avatar
I think that pretty much everyone here accepts that the OP has chosen a VERY rocky road and it HAS been pointed out MANY times.

However, he is doing what he wants to do and doing it well, failures and all. Just because he has chosen what is considered by most, if not all, to be the wrong road it doesn't mean that the Guys here won't or shouldn't support him as they are indeed doing.......

As an aside, how many times do we hear the 'I have a 30 Kilo turbine that I want to fly at my local junior league baseball diamond, I can fly the jets of BF4 (video game for us 'oldies') so I will be a really good pilot' line and just know that somewhere in world something incredibly dangerous is about to happen?? This fella is having fun with some foam and although that COULD also be dangerous it's what this is all about, being innovative and having fun, just my 2 C (€).

Take the camel to water but you can't make him drink, tell a guy that an EzFly is best but you can't make him build one...

Paul
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Jun 11, 2018, 05:09 AM
Registered User
PaulB's Avatar
PS, hot glue to attach a motor????

NO...

NO WAY....

NEVER AGAIN..........



Kind of a amusing and lucky that you din't rip the wires off (or chop a finger off if you were holding the model as it let go!!!!).

Motor and prop MUST be FIRMLY attached, a spinning prop flying around is DANGEROUS!!! BE CAREFUL in future.

Small self tapper screws or at least 4 cable ties as thick as you can get to go through the holes in the mount!!!!!!

Lecture over, well done on the (successful) flight.

Anyone ever mention that an EzFly flies well

Jun 11, 2018, 08:54 AM
Disaster magnet
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulB
PS, hot glue to attach a motor????

NO...

NO WAY....

NEVER AGAIN..........



Kind of a amusing and lucky that you din't rip the wires off (or chop a finger off if you were holding the model as it let go!!!!).

Motor and prop MUST be FIRMLY attached, a spinning prop flying around is DANGEROUS!!! BE CAREFUL in future.

Small self tapper screws or at least 4 cable ties as thick as you can get to go through the holes in the mount!!!!!!

Lecture over, well done on the (successful) flight.

Anyone ever mention that an EzFly flies well


It was over 100' away from me when it came off, and I try to avoid flying near myself whenever possible. I think it would have ripped the wires off if the bullet connectors had not unplugged, so yeah, I got lucky. I like the cable tie idea, I will see it I an get that to work.
Jun 11, 2018, 09:07 AM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
Over the years, we have had a number of guys who set out to build their own design, or a major modification of an existing one, had problems and asked for help. Sometimes the idea is just crazy, as Paul noted. Other times they are honestly trying to learn principles of flight and aerodynamics. While in times past we old timers may have haunted the library or a local hobby shop, or even joined a club, we now have the instant response of the internet and RCG. We also have the "new" materials and electrics that make the trial and error process of learning to fly and learning to build and fly one's own plane faster and easier. Consequently we get to "help" the noobs learn if they want to. Sometimes they don't get it, sometimes they do. One notable was a fellow who cobbled together a design that the original designer had given up as unflyable. After the first few suggestions were ignored or "followed" in an odd manner, it became a running joke. Fortunately, the O. P. joined in and we got a good number of haplessly funny videos.

Chelonian is taking our suggestions to heart, solving his problems and will have the satisfaction of seeing his own contraption fly, learning principles and techniques at each step. Can't beat that!
Jun 12, 2018, 05:30 PM
Registered User
Don't jndereistimate hot glue if used correctly. My pizzabox fliers motor mount is hot glued on. It's jot coming off. I've crashed it many times nose first never came off.

My motor is screwed to a firewall which has a stick glued into the wall. The stick is glued to the tape covered foam. I wouldn't glue to bare foam as it would just rip out.

Spins a 10x4.5 prop tons of torque.

Not recomending hot gluing motor mounts but it can be done.
Jun 14, 2018, 10:57 AM
Disaster magnet
I'm pretty happy with how my plane is flying at this point, but it still really seems to need a lot of space to do well. It's a little annoying having to drive to the baseball field every time I want o fly, so I started looking at planes that would do better in the soccer field that I can just walk to. I then came across the FT Bushwacker. Would it be better suited to a smallish flying field? Another reason I like the idea of the Bushwacker is that it can take off from the ground instead of needing to be thrown.
Jun 14, 2018, 12:03 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelonian
I'm pretty happy with how my plane is flying at this point, but it still really seems to need a lot of space to do well. It's a little annoying having to drive to the baseball field every time I want o fly, so I started looking at planes that would do better in the soccer field that I can just walk to. I then came across the FT Bushwacker. Would it be better suited to a smallish flying field? Another reason I like the idea of the Bushwacker is that it can take off from the ground instead of needing to be thrown.
The FT Bushwacker has a 45" wingspan , IMO that's a large plane ..... and it would be difficult to fly at a smallish field . For a 4 channel RETA plane to be flown in a smallish space , I'm again going to recommend LeadFeather's Yak 55 ( 32" wingspan version is best ) . Build it lightweight ( not covered in tape ) with lightweight electronics , and it will be GREAT at your smallish field . And landing gear wheels can be put on almost any plane .

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...eos-free-plans



Here's my LF Yak 55 :


RC Yak 55 , Dollar Tree foam (2 min 51 sec)
Last edited by balsa or carbon; Jun 14, 2018 at 12:17 PM.
Jun 14, 2018, 12:31 PM
Disaster magnet
I guess I could have phrased my question a bit better:

I don't really want to have to buy any new electronics at this point, and the Bushwacker seems like it would be a good fit for the electronics that I currently have. I looked on Google Maps, and the dimensions of the soccer field are 150'X300', plus about a 30' margin all around before there are any trees or buildings. I would estimate the usable area for flying is about 65,000Sqf.

In Flite Test's video, they showed it flying in a considerably smaller area than the soccer field. I'm sure that they are much more skilled at flying than I am, but it didn't look like it was going particularly fast, or using very much area in the turns.

If there is another plane that will work with my electronics and will fly better in a small space, I'm certainly open for suggestions.
Jun 14, 2018, 01:12 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelonian
I guess I could have phrased my question a bit better:

I don't really want to have to buy any new electronics at this point, and the Bushwacker seems like it would be a good fit for the electronics that I currently have. I looked on Google Maps, and the dimensions of the soccer field are 150'X300', plus about a 30' margin all around before there are any trees or buildings. I would estimate the usable area for flying is about 65,000Sqf.

In Flite Test's video, they showed it flying in a considerably smaller area than the soccer field. I'm sure that they are much more skilled at flying than I am, but it didn't look like it was going particularly fast, or using very much area in the turns.

If there is another plane that will work with my electronics and will fly better in a small space, I'm certainly open for suggestions.
As always this is IMO ( In My Opinion ) : for the easiest small space flying , slow flight is the biggest factor ..... not necessarily small physical size of the plane . To achieve slow flight with your heavy electronics , you would need to build a larger airframe with a lot of wing area ( low wing loading ) . And as you've discovered with your current plane , a plane that relies mostly on ailerons needs a bit of speed to make turns .... so it would be best to make a 3 channel RET high-wing/dihedral type plane .



Here is a 19 foot wingspan RC kite being flown inside a gym . He is able to do so because it is extremely slow flying ( low wing loading ) :


RC Vector Kite 42 * Extreme Slowflyer * 19' Vectorkite Indoor (2 min 5 sec)
Jun 14, 2018, 02:46 PM
Registered User
Extreme Sports's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelonian
I don't really want to have to buy any new electronics at this point....If there is another plane that will work with my electronics and will fly better in a small space, I'm certainly open for suggestions.
The lipo is the only really 'heavy' part of your set up. At 30g that motor is in the ballpark for a Yak or similar (albeit with a high KV). Maybe a mid road option is to get a ~1000mAh 2S lipo and larger prop, then build something like the Yak.

I've built the Yak and it is great. Another option is the 'Troll' 3D biplane - highly underrated IMHO. See https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...338-Troll-Bipe or https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...p?277003-Troll. Can be built a little heavier than recommended (for strength) and great for the sort of field you describe (as long as the wind is close to zero....but that will apply to most things that can fly in that space.

A very different option could be any of these warbirds: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...nd-video%2A%2A. Here the ability to fly in small spaces is down to the small size - these are not slow flyers. Your motor would be fine, the ESC well over-sized (but that is not a major issue other than weight and space), but once again you'd need a larger prop and 2S lipo - around 800mAh to get the weight down. You could also scale up very slightly and still be OK for your space constraints. These can generally handle a bit more wind that the light wing loading planes.
Jun 15, 2018, 07:20 PM
Registered User
Flying in a football size field takes alot of control and know g where the stall is and how much thrust yiu have availible. It's taken me alot of flying to get things tight and controlled.

Even with my helis my 250 I struggled to. Keep within a football pitch.

I have a jumper 25 with oversized engine and tuned pipe. It has more than 1:1 thrust to weight so you can pull it out of stalls and pull of super tight turns with rudder that you wouldn't be able to do in other planez
Jun 19, 2018, 07:38 PM
Disaster magnet
Well, I ended up building the Bushwacker anyways, just because I like trying new planes. After flying it for the first time, here is my flight report:

Because of course none of my flights can be without their signature issues, the motor decided for no reason to just not spin. It made the little startup beeping noises as per usual, but when throttle was applied, it did nothing. I had tested everything right before I left the house, and it was working fine. I unplugged and re-plugged the battery, and this time it worked. This made me a little worried that it would shut off in midair, but I chose to proceed anyways.

It taxied nicely, and since I had never had a plane with landing gear before, I had a bit of fun driving it around. I then decided to take off, and it jumped up off the ground VERY easily, so that was a nice surprise. In the air, the plane flew, but not exceptionally well, In fact, it flew rather badly. It seemed tail heavy to me, but I don't really have enough experience to know for sure. I don't entirely know how to describe the way it turned, but if I had to sum it into a few words, they would be "lazy, jerky, lumbering". The thing that made me think it was tail heavy was that whenever I gave it more than about 70% throttle, the nose would pitch up sharply. The thing that made me think it's NOT tail heavy is the fact that if I tried to glide it, the nose would pitch down significantly. Maybe this is because the wing is angled back a little too much?

I then attempted to land it before anything went wrong, and it did land fairly gently, but the landing gear still broke. This I'm guessing was because because I used aluminum chain-link fencing ties instead of music wire, simply since that was what I had on hand. It wasn't completely broken, just a little bent, so I wanted to try flying it again. It had just taken off, when all of a sudden the motor died again. The plane landed roughly, finishing off the landing gear. Why is the motor doing this? I then had someone hold the plane (with the prop away from them of course) while I tried giving it throttle. I tried giving it 100% throttle, and the speed of the motor was in no way constant. It was sort of pulsing in a rhythmic fashion. It seemed like whenever it got to 100% throttle it would drop back down to about 50%. I lowered the throttle, then returned it to 100%, and this time around, it seemed fine. I really don't understand what would be going on here.

After taking all this information into account, I have decided to change the incidence angle of the wing my adding a popsicle stick in the back in the wing. I'm hoping this will improve the performance.

I'm unsure if I should attempt another flight until the motor issue is resolved. Do you think it is related to the wires becoming twisted on my previous plane?
Jun 19, 2018, 08:12 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Before changing the wing incidence , I would experiment with moving the battery forward ( in small increments ) to see if that improves the flight . And if the nose pitches up a lot with increased throttle , I would also add some down thrust to the motor ( again in small increments ) .

I have not flown an FT Bushwacker , but I have flown a similar FT Storch a few times .... and to make turns it needed coordinated aileron/rudder/elevator input . The Bushwacker may also need coordinated turns .

If you have another compatible ESC that you can use with that motor , try that to see if it makes a difference . And always make sure your battery is fresh ( & fully charged ) : when lipos get older and have had a lot of use , their performance will deteriorate .
Jun 19, 2018, 08:16 PM
Build straight - Fly twisty
Whiskers's Avatar
My advice is to resolve all issues before you fly again.
It is very likely that the motor problem is related to the violence you inflicted on those unfortunate wires.
You may be able to find and fix the problem if you do a careful forensic examination.
Do some Google searching on the subject.
This stuff is part of your education. This is how experts become expert. The most knowledgeable person, on any subject, started off with zero knowledge.
Jun 19, 2018, 09:25 PM
Disaster magnet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskers
My advice is to resolve all issues before you fly again.
It is very likely that the motor problem is related to the violence you inflicted on those unfortunate wires.
You may be able to find and fix the problem if you do a careful forensic examination.
Do some Google searching on the subject.
This stuff is part of your education. This is how experts become expert. The most knowledgeable person, on any subject, started off with zero knowledge.
I did some research, and I wasn't able to find anything with exactly the same problems as me, but I did find some things that seemed similar. The main causes seemed to be improperly calibrated ESCs and bad motor windings.

I think I have the ESC calibrated correctly, but I suppose I could be wrong about that. It the windings are bad in the motor, well, I don't think I know enough to try and rewind it. Maybe the windings got messed up when the wires twisted? There was no burnt smell after the flight, and the motor didn't seem especially warm to the touch.


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