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Nov 30, 2019, 12:45 PM
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gimbleguy's Avatar
That Alzrc Motor bl2525 seems to perform nicely.
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Dec 07, 2019, 01:14 PM
Nova Helicopters designer.
Hey guys,
Can anybody flying their X360 with a kbar successfully kindly check their cyclic and tail gain settings (including any tail expert tab adjustments they had to do to eliminate a tail wag) and let me know those please?
I am getting back to my X360/X3 hybrid after a couple months of it sitting on the shelf.. I was trying to sell it to fund blades and lipos for my unflown Gaui X5 stretch, but I only have the two helis so I am going to get it back in the air.
I remember I had a small but irritating tail wag which didn't stop me flying some mild 3d, but I would like to check my kbar settings as I don't think the heli has any mechanical issues..
Dec 07, 2019, 02:23 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyWhiz
Hey guys,
Can anybody flying their X360 with a kbar successfully kindly check their cyclic and tail gain settings (including any tail expert tab adjustments they had to do to eliminate a tail wag) and let me know those please?
I am getting back to my X360/X3 hybrid after a couple months of it sitting on the shelf.. I was trying to sell it to fund blades and lipos for my unflown Gaui X5 stretch, but I only have the two helis so I am going to get it back in the air.
I remember I had a small but irritating tail wag which didn't stop me flying some mild 3d, but I would like to check my kbar settings as I don't think the heli has any mechanical issues..
I never bother changing the defaults on my K-bars and have a very solid tail on both my X360 and X3 - do you have slow wag or fast wag?
Dec 07, 2019, 03:54 PM
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gimbleguy's Avatar
Another Spectacular flight from Jeff. Awesome flying skills.

ALZRC devil x360 (2 min 46 sec)
Dec 07, 2019, 05:02 PM
Nova Helicopters designer.

Vstabi tail gain settings..


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHRC
I never bother changing the defaults on my K-bars and have a very solid tail on both my X360 and X3 - do you have slow wag or fast wag?
You know Mike, I can't even remember - I think it was a slow wag - fairly minor.. Are you saying you just leave both the cyclic and tail gain slider settings as they appear when you connect an unprogrammed, brand new kbar mini? I have never had the nuts to do that! I have only flown 450s on a kbar, so I have always reduced the cyclic and tail gain from what it defaults at (because of the guide notes to the right of the slider in the vstabi s/w).. From memory, the "default" settings are exactly central in the range aren't they? So, kind of 70 each?
If (as I have sometimes suspected) the actual gain settings are not all that sensitive (or critical), then maybe the majority of tail issues are mechanical?
I have read quite a bit on this subject - tail gain, and (for the same heli) peoples tail gain values seem to vary a lot but work satisfactorily.
Dec 08, 2019, 02:05 AM
Registered User
For a 450 I would tend to start with tail gain around 40 and cyclic gain around 60 - it's the expert systems that I leave alone.

If you have a fast wag it is generally Gain too high, if it is a slow wag it is mechanical - binding / slop or possibly a servo problem
Dec 19, 2019, 11:20 AM
Registered User
i don t change expert settings on the kbar, as said before if it still wags its probably du to a mechanical issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbleguy
Another Spectacular flight from Jeff. Awesome flying skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HR8HTlMDOU
i like how this little beast can overspeed good ^_^
Dec 27, 2019, 12:54 AM
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Atomic Skull's Avatar
Just thought I'd point out these servos:

https://flightcomp.com/collections/m...speed-coreless

The Blue Bird BMS127WVs worked out great in my Oxy2 so I'm going to try these in my X360 build next. I've kind of been turned off from KST micro servos since they started jacking up the price.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that these servos are 250hz maximum. Not sure what would happen if you run them at 333hz either they won't work or you'll slowly kill them either way don't do that.
Last edited by Atomic Skull; Dec 27, 2019 at 01:04 AM.
Dec 27, 2019, 10:05 AM
rc user
pdooley's Avatar
those BMS are $27 each? i thought they were less than that. how much are the KST now?

speaking of cheap, I'm wondering if these are a knockoff of the KST?
https://www.banggood.com/PTK-9497-MG...r_warehouse=CN

problem with buying for a heli is costx3, $45 is still a bit much to experiment with an unknown, though the reviews are favorable..
but aren't they all on BG
Dec 27, 2019, 04:53 PM
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Atomic Skull's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdooley
those BMS are $27 each? i thought they were less than that. how much are the KST now?
They are different servos, the BMS-127WV is 10x23x23mm and will fit into an Ozy2 the BMS-207WV is 12x23x27mm and most definitely will not, but has higher torque because they can fit a bigger motor inside the case. They both seem based on the same technology (notice they're both 250hz max) and they might even use the same logic board, or at least very similar PCBs.

KST DS215 and DS315 are now over $30. Just a few months ago I got a set of three 315s for $21 each, went back to get some for my upcoming X360 build and found the price had jumped nearly $10. The BMS-207 isn't much cheaper than the DS215 / DS315 but it's almost twice as fast and twice as strong as a DS315 and nearly three times stronger than a DS215. I was also impressed by the internal build on the BMS-127, they glued down the internal wiring which you rarely see in micro servos.

Gonna have to try their standard size servos soon, the prices seem pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdooley

problem with buying for a heli is costx3, $45 is still a bit much to experiment with an unknown, though the reviews are favorable..
but aren't they all on BG
The specs listed for that are significantly higher than any KST micro servo. All aluminum based micro servos basically look alike so I'm not sure you could call it a knockoff. Also the normal price is listed as $38 which seems more in line with the listed specs. The $15 price could just be a promotional to get people to try them.

Blue Bird at least isn't some no name company they've been around for quite a long time. I never really bothered looking at them until now because their servos weren't really all that interesting until the last few years when they suddenly started putting out servos with some pretty good specs.

KST seems to be trying to go upmarket and if they jack up the price of the BLS815 and BLS805 then I'm out. I won't close to $99 for a chinese brushless servo when Promodelers also cost $99.
Last edited by Atomic Skull; Dec 27, 2019 at 05:10 PM.
Jan 08, 2020, 05:34 PM
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Atomic Skull's Avatar
I found that you can solve the issue of the idler pulleys binding when you tighten the screws by putting a 2x3.5x0.2 shim between the bottom bearing and the mounting post on the boom mount and stopping as soon as you feel resistance. You can then fully tighten the screw with no need of backing it off. (stop as soon as the screw resists turning and don't monkey fist it or the shim will deform)

EDIT: Didn't like the stock 10mm adjustment shims that go between the maingear and the tail pulley so I used some brass 10x12x0.1 shims I had laying around and got a bit smoother operation that with the stock shims. The replacements have less surface area and a tighter tolerance I.D and brass is a better materiel for this application than steel. Also added a bit of super lube synthetic grease to the contact area.

also I found that the flat side of the snap ring must face the one way clutch otherwise it would bind. Never built a heli that required snap ring pliers before today.
Last edited by Atomic Skull; Jan 08, 2020 at 08:56 PM.
Jan 08, 2020, 08:55 PM
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Atomic Skull's Avatar
I found the 0.1 an 0.5 shims between the maingear and middle bearing block (as shown in the manual) are unnecessary and will cause the belt to touch the upper flange of the pulley. This is actually from the TT Gaui X3, it's used to adjust the backlash between the TT bevel gear and the crown gear. On the X360 you only need a 0.1 shim there.

Also the 0.1 shim provided (which was actually more like 0.15 in the kit was 5.98mm ID and was very difficult to fit so I replaced it with a 0.1 shim from my parts drawers.
Jan 09, 2020, 10:55 AM
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gimbleguy's Avatar
Thank you for sharing AS
Jan 09, 2020, 09:31 PM
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Atomic Skull's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbleguy
Thank you for sharing AS
I figured out why the idlers bind when tightened down, the center tube of the bearing presses into the plastic when the screw is tightened. The 0.2 shim prevents this and allows you to tighten the screw so long as you don't monkey fist it to the point that the shim starts to deform.

Flightcomp only had one BMS-207WV servo in stock so I ended up ordering them from Hyperflight in the UK instead. So I'm waiting about a week or so for servos now.
Last edited by Atomic Skull; Jan 09, 2020 at 09:36 PM.
Jan 10, 2020, 12:08 AM
rc user
pdooley's Avatar
looking forward to hearing how they work.

i have 4 of the hobbyking branded standard size 661DMG-HS servos in my cars and the micro TGY DMH 211 and 212 in my 450 sport.
the 661's are flawless in the cars with much run time.
the micros in the 450 are reliable, but the tail hold is not as good as the KST.


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