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May 13, 2018, 09:32 AM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOBBYEAGLE
We will use a new name "Gain Drop" instead of "Response Gain" in the future,...
Still looks like expo for the gain setting to me.

Maybe a term like Gain Expo or Gain Priority would be a good alternative? As mentioned above, Stick Priority is used by others, but that doesn't explain the impact is on the gain and thus control surface response.
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May 13, 2018, 09:38 AM
A man with too many toys
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOBBYEAGLE
I think you can use the AttiLock mode instead of User Defined mode. Just need to set the lock gain of corresponding axis to 0% then you will get only the normal mode on that axis. This was why we cancelled the user defined mode on A3S3, it can be achieved in another way by using the independent gain settings for each axis and for each flight modes.
I use the user defined mode to have rate damping on ailerons and elevator but leading lock on rudder. That works perfect for tail dragger aircraft takeoff. Don't see any to do that with the current S3 ooptions.

.
May 13, 2018, 10:02 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaZoom
Still looks like expo for the gain setting to me.

Maybe a term like Gain Expo or Gain Priority would be a good alternative? As mentioned above, Stick Priority is used by others, but that doesn't explain the impact is on the gain and thus control surface response.
You are right. Stick Priority is not accurate enough to explain the relationship between the dynamic gain and the stick deflection. Expo usually means curve but it is actually a line, so maybe Gain Linear will be better and easier to understand. And also, to make settings even simpler, I am going to offer several options for this parameter insteading of varying from 0 to 100%. Options may include L0-Never Drop, L1-Stable, L2-Normal, L3-3D...
May 13, 2018, 10:08 AM
Registered User
Gain Curve (Note that a curve in maths does not have to be a 'curve' at all.... it can be straight/linear too)

Is it some maths function? Such as Expo.... Sine etc?
Gain Expo.....
May 13, 2018, 10:17 AM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOBBYEAGLE
You are right. Stick Priority is not accurate enough to explain the relationship between the dynamic gain and the stick deflection. Expo usually means curve but it is actually a line, so maybe Gain Linear will be better and easier to understand. And also, to make settings even simpler, I am going to offer several options for this parameter insteading of varying from 0 to 100%. Options may include L0-Never Drop, L1-Stable, L2-Normal, L3-3D...
Nice to see you so active on this. Gain Priority seems to cover it pretty well, doesn't matter if curve or linear and it covers the dynamic nature as long as the accompanying text explanation covers that the effective gain rate varies with stick movement. Gain Expo might still be more easily understood in general, though it's possible that might cause some to avoid trying it. Gain Drop seems to work, too.

Different question - There was formerly a delay built into the self-level that seemed to make using self-level for a panic function (switching over from rate mode) seem like it took a very long time for a model to achieve level flight. I remember the delay was turned down in the last version or so of the A3S2 firmware, but even after that it still seemed sluggish when compared to something like a SAFE receiver. Does the A3S3 also have the delay? If so, how much?
Last edited by GottaZoom; May 13, 2018 at 10:26 AM.
May 13, 2018, 10:28 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC
Gain Curve (Note that a curve in maths does not have to be a 'curve' at all.... it can be straight/linear too)

Is it some maths function? Such as Expo.... Sine etc?
Gain Expo.....
ok... either Gain Curve or Gain Linear, you may be right, linear is one of the curves in English, but never mind, it is just a name. I will draw lots to determine..
May 13, 2018, 10:31 AM
Registered User
the_crack_fox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOBBYEAGLE
That was just what we expected. Did you feel any vast difference in normal mode between s2 and s3?
It's been a long time since I flew an S2. Hard to say if there's much difference without flying them back-to-back in the same model. I like the way the S3 flies, did you change the algorithms for normal mode?
May 13, 2018, 10:41 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaZoom
Nice to see you so active on this. Gain Priority seems to cover it pretty well, doesn't matter if curve or linear and it covers the dynamic nature as long as the accompanying text explanation covers that the effective gain rate varies with stick movement. Gain Expo might still be more easily understood in general, though it's possible that might cause some to avoid trying it. Gain Drop seems to work, too.

Different question - There was formerly a delay built into the self-level that seemed to make using self-level for a panic function (switching over from rate mode) seem like it took a very long time for a model to achieve level flight. I remember the delay was turned down in the last version or so of the A3S2 firmware, but even after that it still seemed sluggish when compared to something like a SAFE receiver. Does the A3S3 also have the delay? If so, how much?
The delay was set to 500ms on super2. It was used to perform attitude realignment in the sky. But the delay has been cancelled from A3S3 because of the improvement of the algorithm. But, I have to say that there is no algorithm can offer absolutely correct attitude result at any time, especially after high maneuver flight.
May 13, 2018, 12:08 PM
Registered User
Go4it's Avatar
Terms of words in the manual sometimes get lost in their meaning. I think a quick analogy or examples of each setting exactly the way you describe items above would be most beneficial to all the pilots the way you intended the gyro to perform.

Like
Instead of "GAIN DROP" why not use what others use, "STICK PRIORITY"?
Maybe a term like Gain Expo or Gain Priority

Call what you will. Just define what it does and intended for by examples would be more beneficial IMHO

Sometimes we read too much into the words and not really getting their real meaning. That's, why I mention examples, would really help. I think the A3S3 would work a lot better for pilots if they knew more on how to set it up by the settings they were choosing.
May 13, 2018, 01:11 PM
Flying R/C since 1964
kallend's Avatar
Any chance we can get the Auto RR stick mode back whereby rotation rates could be specified? I really liked the ability to specify how fast a roll rate I wanted.

In fact, if it were EXACTLY like the Super 2 but with the remote connector, it would be perfect.
May 13, 2018, 06:38 PM
Registered User
the_crack_fox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kallend
Any chance we can get the Auto RR stick mode back whereby rotation rates could be specified? I really liked the ability to specify how fast a roll rate I wanted.

In fact, if it were EXACTLY like the Super 2 but with the remote connector, it would be perfect.
Perfect except for the slow roll rates. Increase the max roll rate to 1500-2000deg/sec. 650deg/sec isn't anywhere near fast enough for some of us

The sbus/ppm pass thru is excellent. The servo centre/endpoint setup is good, but the PC software needs attention. I had to guess how to do it because the graphics in the app didn't render properly.
Last edited by the_crack_fox; May 13, 2018 at 06:44 PM.
May 14, 2018, 04:10 AM
Blue Skies
hifinsword's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go4it
Terms of words in the manual sometimes get lost in their meaning. I think a quick analogy or examples of each setting exactly the way you describe items above would be most beneficial to all the pilots the way you intended the gyro to perform.

Like
Instead of "GAIN DROP" why not use what others use, "STICK PRIORITY"?
Maybe a term like Gain Expo or Gain Priority

Call what you will. Just define what it does and intended for by examples would be more beneficial IMHO

Sometimes we read too much into the words and not really getting their real meaning. That's, why I mention examples, would really help. I think the A3S3 would work a lot better for pilots if they knew more on how to set it up by the settings they were choosing.
+1! Examples and definitions are severely lacking in all of the HE products. Don't leave us to guess what a setting does. Some of the definitions seem to be written in a language only an engineer would understand. A definition helps, but an example really nails it down if the definition is ambiguous.
Don
May 14, 2018, 06:12 AM
Registered User
Hello HOBBYEAGLE,

Nice to see activity from You here. I was losing hope but now I see some promising future
I have around 10 Super2 and one Super 3.

So here is my input for you:

- As a lot of users say, the S3 feels a little bit slower to react, people find the controls less direct, compared to the S2.

- Also, please help me: with Delta wing, there is a difference between S2 and S3. In the wing selection the drawing shows 3 outputs (2 elevon + 1 rudd) on S3, but only 2 outputs (2 elevons) on S2. Does it mean that the rudder is not controlled there by the gyro? I like the one in the S3 better, just think about a jet plane (I have one and I am about to use an S2 there... but maybe I need the S3?)

- at the servo settings, S2 software has a "response rate" setting, while S3 does not. What is replacing this function?

Some good things I like in S3:
-separate connector
-6 modes available at the same time, very useful for flight test and setup

...and the last: please consider selling the field programmer cards separately too.

Thanks
bm
May 14, 2018, 08:25 AM
Flying R/C since 1964
kallend's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_crack_fox
Perfect except for the slow roll rates. Increase the max roll rate to 1500-2000deg/sec. 650deg/sec isn't anywhere near fast enough for some of us

.
330 RPM roll rate doesn't seem too realistic to me. That's faster than the rotors of a Huey or Jet Ranger turn and beyond the ability of your visual system to process.
May 14, 2018, 10:32 AM
Registered User
the_crack_fox's Avatar
You're probably right. Though i do think it should be the limitations of the airframe that determine performance, not the electronics choking it.


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