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May 10, 2018, 01:22 AM
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Bug reports and suggestions for HobbyEagle A3Super3(A3S3) airplane gyro


We are starting this thread to collect and sort the firmware issues and bugs for A3S3. If you have any questions or suggestions please post them here, we will try to figure out the problems and make a bug fix asap. This thread is willing to be used as an area of bug collection only. If you want to learn more about how to use or setup the gyro, please review the threads as shown below:

HOBBY EAGLE A3 super A3 SUPERII New GYRO A3S3 questions and answers gyro system
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...highlight=A3S3

HOBBY EAGLE New A3Super3 known as A3S3 questions and answers
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...highlight=A3S3
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May 10, 2018, 06:55 AM
Registered User
PaulB's Avatar
Wow,

if this is not just a smoke screen to keep the punters happy and you really are going to 1) listen and 2) do something, then I am impressed.

Good luck.

Paul
Latest blog entry: Just To Say Hello.......
May 10, 2018, 03:46 PM
Fire Marshall Bill
Bravo Hobby Eagle

Nice to hear from you
May 12, 2018, 01:20 PM
Flying R/C since 1964
kallend's Avatar
1. use the exact same stabilization algorithms as the Super 2.
There was no need to change anything.

2. put the Auto AR/RR stick mode back whereby rotation rates could be specified.

3. explain exactly what "response gain" means, and what effect changing it will have.

4. If auto balance is engaged as a panic recovery while inverted, do NOT apply up elevator until the model has rolled upright..

The ONLY thing I like better about the Super 3 compared with the Super 2 is the remote connection. If you had left everything else the same and just added the remote connector I would have loved it. As it is, I removed all the Super 3s from my models and replaced them with Super 2 units.
May 13, 2018, 12:32 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by kallend
1. use the exact same stabilization algorithms as the Super 2.
There was no need to change anything.
...
Thanks for your suggestions. Make a note of the bugs and works that should be done in the new update.

1. Settings of stick reverse, rate and expo have to be removed from the new version to make the gyro easy to use. It now seems that they were all completely unnecessary, on the contrary, they caused a lot of troubles and confusions to the users. Use the TX trimmings and reverse, rate or expo settings in the gyro at the same time could lead to a wrong initial neutral position of the servos when restarting the gyro.

2. Rollback the stabilization algorithms to the previous version which was being used for super 2.
The improvement of the algorithms should be tested more before releasing.

3. "Response gain" should be renamed to "Gain Drop" to make a better understanding of it. In fact, the response gain determines the rate of decline of basic gain related to the stick movement. The reason for the gain drop is that when a large stick command is given by the pilot the gyro needs to reduce its correction which will prevent the plane from rolling quickly.

4. While the plane is inverted in auto level mode, only apply the aileron correction until the plane has rolled upright.

5. We alse need to consider whether to bring back the AR/RR stick mode. Because many people cannot understand what the difference is between the manual and auto stick control mode in super 2, in fact, most people were still using the manual control mode as default. In some applications, AR/RR mode will make the control of the plane become weak or even losing control.

anything else? I'm looking forward to hearing your suggestions, or gripes.
May 13, 2018, 03:30 AM
Registered User
Thread OP

About the Response Gain


We will use a new name "Gain Drop" instead of "Response Gain" in the future, as for what effect changing it will have please refer to the following figures:

When set to 0%, the basic gain will drop from 100% to 50% automatically while the stick is being moved from 0% to 100% on the both sides. But there still will be a certain range near the stick neutral that no drop happens.
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Description:

When set to 50%, the basic gain will drop from 100% to 0% automatically while the stick is being moved from 0% to 100% on the both sides. But there still will be a certain range near the stick neutral that no drop happens.
Name: gain_drop_50.jpg
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Description:

When set to 100%, the basic gain will drop from 100% to 0% automatically while the stick is being moved from 0% to 60% on the both sides, and after 60% the gain will always be 0%. But there still will be a certain range near the stick neutral that no drop happens.
Name: gain_drop_100.jpg
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Description:

The same gain drop curve existed in super2 too, but super2 didn't provide you an option to change the decline rate before.
May 13, 2018, 03:41 AM
Registered User
Go4it's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOBBYEAGLE
We will use a new name "Gain Drop" instead of "Response Gain" in the future, as for what effect changing it will have please refer to the following figures:

When set to 0%, the basic gain will drop from 100% to 50% automatically while the stick is being moved from 0% to 100% on the both sides. But there still will be a certain range near the stick neutral that no drop happens.
Attachment 10948980

When set to 50%, the basic gain will drop from 100% to 0% automatically while the stick is being moved from 0% to 100% on the both sides. But there still will be a certain range near the stick neutral that no drop happens.
Attachment 10948981

When set to 100%, the basic gain will drop from 100% to 0% automatically while the stick is being moved from 0% to 60% on the both sides, and after 60% the gain will always be 0%. But there still will be a certain range near the stick neutral that no drop happens.
Attachment 10948982

The same gain drop curve existed in super2 too, but super2 didn't provide you an option to change the decline rate before.


You mentioned the Super2 - What are the settings set to for the gain drop so I have a reference point to start with for the A3S3

Also, exactly what is the gain drop trying to accomplish to help assist the pilot in flying. What are you trying to achieve with varying the settings?

Give me an example of a quick reference starting point
Jets typical setting is set to------
3D planes setting is-------
Warplanes setting is ------
Last edited by Go4it; May 13, 2018 at 03:51 AM.
May 13, 2018, 03:51 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go4it
You mentioned the Super2 - What are the settings set to for the gain drop so I have a reference point to start with for the A3S3
In super2, the gain drop was set to 50% as default in the firmware, that is, when you moving the stick from the neutral to 100% full left or right, the basic gain will drop from 100% to 0%. This is just the default setting for A3S3. Here ±100% of the stick movement corresponds the pwm range of ±400uS , just a reference.
May 13, 2018, 04:42 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go4it
You mentioned the Super2 - What are the settings set to for the gain drop so I have a reference point to start with for the A3S3

Also, exactly what is the gain drop trying to accomplish to help assist the pilot in flying. What are you trying to achieve with varying the settings?

Give me an example of a quick reference starting point
Jets typical setting is set to------
3D planes setting is-------
Warplanes setting is ------
ok, I will explain in more detail about why we need a gain drop. In order to get the effect of improving stability, the gyro will always react in the opposite direction of the potential drift of the plane which caused by wind or other factors. This correction is exactly what we need in flight, but ONLY when the stick is kept in its neutral position or near the neutral.

But if a large stick input is given by the pilot, it will be quite different because he might need a fast rolling but the gyro will still try to react against it to achieve the maneuver as expected. This is what we don't want so we need to reduce the basic gain a litter to prevent this from happening. So varying the gain drop settings could obtain a different response of the plane when you move the sticks, but it won't affect the performance when the sticks are in the neutral position or near the neutral.

I can't give you a certain reference point of this setting because it completely depends on your needs. If you want the plane more stable and slow, you might need to set it smaller but if you want to flight 3D a larger and faster drop rate might be needed.

In fact, the figure above is just a reference things will be more complicated when achieving in the software, we will take different approaches for different flight modes.
Last edited by HOBBYEAGLE; May 13, 2018 at 04:51 AM.
May 13, 2018, 05:25 AM
A man with too many toys

User Defined Mode


I use the User Defined Mode on the Super II.

Is it possible to add that option to the S3?

.
May 13, 2018, 05:28 AM
Registered User
the_crack_fox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go4it

Also, exactly what is the gain drop trying to accomplish to help assist the pilot in flying. What are you trying to achieve with varying the settings?

---
The response gain setting allows the model to roll much faster. I love that setting. The S2 always felt like it was flying thru molasses. Id have to turn the gyro off to have any fun. That's why I stopped using S2's. I've only ever used the S3 in normal mode and I really like it.
May 13, 2018, 06:45 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Man
I use the User Defined Mode on the Super II.

Is it possible to add that option to the S3?

.
I think you can use the AttiLock mode instead of User Defined mode. Just need to set the lock gain of corresponding axis to 0% then you will get only the normal mode on that axis. This was why we cancelled the user defined mode on A3S3, it can be achieved in another way by using the independent gain settings for each axis and for each flight modes.
May 13, 2018, 06:55 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_crack_fox
The response gain setting allows the model to roll much faster. I love that setting. The S2 always felt like it was flying thru molasses. Id have to turn the gyro off to have any fun. That's why I stopped using S2's. I've only ever used the S3 in normal mode and I really like it.
That was just what we expected. Did you feel any vast difference in normal mode between s2 and s3?
May 13, 2018, 09:02 AM
Blue Skies
hifinsword's Avatar
Instead of "GAIN DROP" why not use what others use, "STICK PRIORITY"? Or is that an infringement of a trademark/copyright? One hundered (100%) stick priority means 0% gains since the STICK is determining how much gain is being used at all deflections. Zero (0%) priority means the STAB PROGRAM is determining how much gain is being applied, even at max stick deflection. Any other setting determines in a straight line, how much gain is applied at different stick deflections.
Don
May 13, 2018, 09:09 AM
Blue Skies
hifinsword's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go4it
You mentioned the Super2 - What are the settings set to for the gain drop so I have a reference point to start with for the A3S3

Also, exactly what is the gain drop trying to accomplish to help assist the pilot in flying. What are you trying to achieve with varying the settings?

Give me an example of a quick reference starting point
Jets typical setting is set to------
3D planes setting is-------
Warplanes setting is ------
HE, giving some examples such as listed above, and including a high wing trainer would help those new to your stab immensely and make it so much more marketable and useable. I'm not asking for the programmed GAIN rates, just recommended rates for NORMAL, A/B, AVCS, etc. for general settings. That gives us something to start with that we can adjust for our own preferences. Also roll rates, and the other settings we have to go in and set from scratch. Why should we have to guess where to start when you already understand the settings and where different a/c should be to begin with?
Don


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