April 2018 Results - RC Groups
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May 03, 2018, 06:31 PM
Registered User
Contest

April 2018 Results


Cold day. Windy. Few thermals. Look at results - all rounds were 10 minute, max score 700 pts. The numbers tell the story.

RESULTS:
OPEN EXPERT:
1. Sean Worthington
2. Dave Murphy
3. Richard Trask

RES EXPERT:
1. Bob Brown

Below: Complete results and Season Champ to date.
Last edited by rdemattei; May 03, 2018 at 06:33 PM. Reason: add files
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May 03, 2018, 07:10 PM
SBSS, SVSS, SCCMAS, EBRC
Don McCullough's Avatar

Scoring Method?


I am very confused by the posted scores. It was my understanding that Glider Score followed the format of 1000 points for the winner for each group within each round. The other flyer's score are a percent compared to the winner of the group times 1000 points. I would expect to see 1000 points in each group/round.

How were the points calculated? Just raw?


Don
May 04, 2018, 08:28 AM
Registered User
Don, totally agree. If there is going to be no normalization, there should be no groups. It should just be open winch. Otherwise it is unfair.

-Randy
May 13, 2018, 10:46 PM
Registered User
Don and Randy,
Agree with you both and think we should try the changes you suggest! I'll contact CD DeMattei....
Thanks,
Dave
May 14, 2018, 12:55 PM
Registered User

Normalization


If someone would tell me how to do the normalization, I would be happy to do it. I don't see how it would affect the contest since all the rounds are set before the contest starts. The final sores are normalized. For season champion matrix I just divide them by 10. If you mean that from the second round onwards rounds should be drawn so that the top pilots fly against each other, again someone needs to tell me how to do this within Glider Score. I really don't see where the unfairness comes in. Maybe I'm just dim and someone else should take over running the contests.
May 14, 2018, 01:28 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdemattei
If someone would tell me how to do the normalization, I would be happy to do it. I don't see how it would affect the contest since all the rounds are set before the contest starts. The final sores are normalized. For season champion matrix I just divide them by 10. If you mean that from the second round onwards rounds should be drawn so that the top pilots fly against each other, again someone needs to tell me how to do this within Glider Score. I really don't see where the unfairness comes in. Maybe I'm just dim and someone else should take over running the contests.
Bob, let me start by saying that I appreciate you taking the time each month to serve as CD and scorekeeper. Your sacrifice does not go unnoticed.

To explain my unfairness comment...it happens when people are forced to fly at a certain time (i.e. flight groups) and their raw scores are compared directly against people flying at a different time and therefore different conditions. A minute or two (which can be reduced to seconds) difference can mean the difference between making your time or not or hitting your landing or not. So the quicker we can get one group up together in the same air, the more fair it is. F3J is the best at this with simultaneous launch. As for TD, the next best you can get is the way they do it at the NATs, ESL contests, and the Mid-South, having enough similar winches to launch all flight group contestants within quick succession. For us, if we could get 3-4 winches strung and run flight groups of 3-4 would be a more fair format.

Comparing two groups together from the same round that separated by 20-30 minutes at a minimum is not fair at all.

Am I making a coherent argument?

Assuming I am... within each round, there should be one person from each flight group that scores a 1000 if landings are added to the flight time before normalization. So if we are running two groups...two people in each round (one in each group) should have a 1000 score regardless of what their raw score was.

Seeding would be nice as well, like you mentioned above.

Now as far as how you do all that on GliderScore...I am not too familiar with the program, but I would imagine the functionality must exist.

Regarding the season championship...are you saying each flier's total monthly scores are added together and then divided by 10 regardless of how many monthly's they enter?

Again, thanks for giving your time so we that we can compete for bragging rights about who flies their toy glider the best

-Randy
Last edited by burke757; May 14, 2018 at 02:19 PM.
May 15, 2018, 12:06 AM
Registered User
I'm sure that GliderScore has the utility to normalize scores in each flight group. That's the way all the F3J and F5J contests I'm familiar with are run. Seems to me that this is the best, most practical, way to even out the effects of changing local conditions.

Round One Group One flies in great air. People easily make the ten minutes, and score landing points. Best pilot is awarded 1000 points, others are awarded fewer points based on their percentage relationship to the 1000 point guy in their group.

Round One Group Two flies in more challenging air. Nobody makes the ten minutes, some score landing points. Still........the best pilot is awarded 1000 points, others are awarded points based on their percentage relationship to the 1000 point guy in their group.

One issue I see is how do you break ties? In a four round, two flight group, contest, we could end up with eight pilots who each won a round....or a eight way tie. Simple solution is to have a fly off round or two, but I'm not sure we want to go down that path with a monthly club contest.

I'm glad we are talking about this, get your best ideas out. I'm sure we will find a format that works for our club.
May 15, 2018, 05:41 PM
Registered User

Got it!


First, let me say I understand where every one is coming from. Using my old, cumbersome EXCEL scoring program we did normalize. However it wasn't immediately obvious how to do it in Glider Score. I sat down a played with GS for about an hour and I FOUND IT! We will now have scores normalized by flight group. Sorry about the misunderstanding and lack of playing around with GS sooner.
May 15, 2018, 07:01 PM
Registered User
Good News! Thanks!
Dave
May 15, 2018, 07:51 PM
Registered User
Awesome!
May 17, 2018, 09:23 PM
tpczx6
tpczx6's Avatar
So are we going to make a matrix for flight groups?

lets say the pilots in one make time and the guys in the next max out at half the time and somehow one guy gets the luck of the draw and wins each lower round he could win the overall and not of made his times at all during the day.
May 22, 2018, 03:48 PM
Team Hello Kitty
SoaringDude's Avatar
Hi guys, I see you are also getting GliderScore things worked out for TD. We are going through the same process at SVSS. We are normalizing the duration scores each round to the top pilot's score. Landings are added to the normalized duration score. This is done using GliderScore's "GroupScore=Time" option which Bob already discovered.

The only downside for us is that because we don't fly our TD in a man-on-man format when we fly a "rounds in any order" contest the normalization isn't strictly based on the same period of flying. But this way it's closer to our old scoring system results so for this year that's the way it is being done.

Lots of moving parts in GS but once we worked out the template it's pretty nice.

Chris


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