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Mar 21, 2018, 04:46 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrien
... I am hoping that a native french model enthusiast ...
Lots of French natives
www.modelisme.com

intra-dos/extra-dos, dos = back = rug (nl)? (which, by the way, is killing me right now )

www.modelbouwforum.nl/forum/vliegende-schaalmodellen.45
www.modelbouwforum.nl/forum/watervliegen.91

www.janhermkens.nl
→ Short Sunderland 1:10, lots of constuction pictures

Prolific designer/builder Bart83, same username on RCG
www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/dornier-do24k-schaal-1-10.235235
www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/bouwverslag-short-s-23-c-class-empire-vliegboot.169834
www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/dornier-do24k-bouwplannen.187278
www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/dornier-wal-klein-schaalmodel.228663
www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/lasercut-grumman-goose-prototype.212034
www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/dornier-wal-klein-project-met-download-tekening.195040

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Apr 21, 2018 at 08:43 AM. Reason: + French
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Mar 21, 2018, 05:16 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Ramses, another prolific designer/builder, also on RCG.

www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/Dornier Do Wal Marine Luchtvaart Dienst.238182

Mar 21, 2018, 05:25 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrien
... So I am wondering, what other alternatives for battery cooling have people implemented for their seaplanes?
If batteries need cooling they are getting over-amped.
LiPo's are happiest at around 40C, so put them in your pockets for a while before flying (or build a heater-box).

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
Mar 21, 2018, 09:42 PM
Registered User
AntiArf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron van Sommeren
If batteries need cooling they are getting over-amped.
LiPo's are happiest at around 40C, so put them in your pockets for a while before flying (or build a heater-box).

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
Exactly. No reason a prop job should be straining batteries. EDFs generally are known for being high current apps, and even in that case around 5 minutes is probably around average for a flight, if not longer than average. That's not enough time for a bit of air movement to make a notable difference in the steady state temperature of a battery with more than 2 cells, where there are cell/s buried in the center. Might be different if they flew considerably longer, but they don't. If they did, the draw would be low enough that cooling wouldn't be an issue, making it a paradox.
Mar 22, 2018, 02:18 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Bedankt Ron!

Nice links, will have to pour over them. I am pretty much settled on simply putting the batteries in the fuselage and take a "see what happens" attitude.

Edit: Holy Cr** that Bart guy is not kidding! That is no longer a hobby, that is an obsession! :-) Beautiful though... !!!

(PS: Fun fact: I worked for Dornier, the only planes they build at the time were the 228 and later the 328, but my work had nothing to do with either of them )
Last edited by rcrien; Mar 22, 2018 at 03:53 AM.
Mar 22, 2018, 11:20 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Question: In the plan it tells me that the entire outside of the plane is covered with 1.5mm balsa.

I have never before seen a plane with that thin an outside. Especially for a 76" model that seems way to thin.

OTOH in the other boat plane threads there is talk about 'glassing'. So it seems that the plan assumes that it will be glassed?

Or is 1.5mm normal for such projects?
Mar 22, 2018, 01:23 PM
Slip the surly bonds...
Sopwith Mike's Avatar
Hi rcrien,

Believe me, 1.5mm balsa is fine for skinning this size of model. My CL-415 is skinned half way up the fuselage (the rest is just film covering) and is 72" span. The plan and short kit are available from Sarik Hobbies. Even larger is a G Class Empire boat, 100" span and a 132" span Saunders Roe Princess. I used 1.5mm balsa for all the fuselage skinning, except for the underside of the hull, where I used 2.4mm (3/32").

Mike
Mar 22, 2018, 01:41 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks Mike,

That is good enough for me then. I must say I am a bit surprised by that, even my soaring planes use thicker wood than that. (Though now I think about it, soaring planes have usually a very thin fuselage between wing and elevator, so maybe it is done for stiffness)

Rien.

Btw: Somebody must have tried using a thin slow drying epoxy directly on balsa? Anybody ever heard of something like that? (I did that on the paper tube of a telescope once, and that worked like a charm)
Mar 22, 2018, 09:53 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrien
... Somebody must have tried using a thin slow drying epoxy directly on balsa? ...
Bart83 combined epoxy with very thin lightweight glass-cloth. Or was it G4 polyurethane resin?
Described somewhere in
Dornier Do24K , schaal 1/10
and/or in
Bouwverslag , Short S.23 ''C'' class empire vliegboot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron van Sommeren
Jan is several times European champion.

RC-Europe (Amersfoort/NL) has several waterplane kits in their program
www.rc-europe.eu/vliegtuigen-op-type/watervliegtuigen/

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrien
... I worked for Dornier ...
More gorgeous 1929-1932 Do-X pictures here
www.mashable.com/2016/06/22/dornier-flying-boat


Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Mar 22, 2018 at 10:15 PM.
Mar 23, 2018, 03:08 AM
Slip the surly bonds...
Sopwith Mike's Avatar
I used tbin glasscloth on the hull of all three models, but used acrylic varnish to attach it rather than epoxy. One coat of varnishto seal the wood, then the glasscloth a with another coat of varnish. It's waterproof and ding resistant.
Mar 23, 2018, 07:03 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
I am thinking of doing a test with only epoxy directly applied to the balsa, and see what happens. But since my epoxy work is done in the garage, I have to wait for the temperature to climb a little. Its too cold right now.
Mar 23, 2018, 04:55 PM
Airwolf250
Airwolf250's Avatar

English plans


Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrien
I am thinking of doing a test with only epoxy directly applied to the balsa, and see what happens. But since my epoxy work is done in the garage, I have to wait for the temperature to climb a little. Its too cold right now.
Just trying to help with English plans.
I just downloaded for a 76" Cl215 in English from Areofred. See if these will help.

Good Luck with the build.
My Areofred build is a Canadair CL 114 Tudor.
Hope it looks like the picture when I,m done.

Don
Last edited by Airwolf250; Oct 09, 2020 at 03:07 PM.
Mar 23, 2018, 05:05 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrien
... epoxy work ...
Careful, don't forget to take precautions, user GJVO is waiting for a new liver.
Protection, a.o. not all types of gloves are suited
www.modelbouwforum.nl/posts/3686808
en
www.modelbouwforum.nl/posts/3193712

Abaout epoxy quilities and suppliers
www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/mag-houdt-epoxylijm-over-op-dd-lak.257070/

To all non-Nederlands readers, sorry for the Nederlandse links, I mainly frequent the Electric Motor Design and Construction and the Power Systems subfora here on RCG.

Speaking of which, how are you going to power the plane Rien? What do you expect the all out total mass to be, including batteries and motors?

Prettig weekend Ron
Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Mar 23, 2018 at 05:45 PM.
Mar 24, 2018, 06:52 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks Ron, so far I do indeed use latex gloves. Which according to the threads you linked are _NOT_ suitable. Hmm.

I have to say I don't really like using epoxy. I do not have any allergies, but I just don't like the touch and smell of the stuff. Maybe my subconscious is trying to warn me?

Maybe I should go with Sopwith Mike's solution and use acryl based products. The longer I think about this, and the more I see in the linked threads(!!!), yup, I should do that and forget about the epoxy.

According to the plan, the total weight is expected to come in at 4.3 to 4.6Kg. However the original design was for two 500-type motors with two 8 cell NiMH's. With current motors and batteries it should be possible to reduce weight by maybe 300 grams, so 4 to 4.3 Kg should be possible.

Which in my quick guesstimate means 2x 500W engines (http://www.starbase55.com/cl415/thou...-thoughts.html).

I have not selected the exact engines yet. I will check your threads about power subsystems and motors. But I like advice... a lot... so if you have any suggestions, please do...
Keep in mind though that I work on a budget :-( so any of the really expensive stuff is out of my reach.

I would also be interested in opinions on the latest HV-Lipos. A real innovation, or just another way of pushing new chargers into the market?
Mar 26, 2018, 03:05 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Hi Don, Unfortunately the english plans are quite different from the 415.


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